Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Widdensushi · 16-09-2021 8:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897585#Comment_117897585

Obviously those rooms should get priority, well ventilated rooms don't need them at all,it will end up like the ventilators, alot of these will never be taken out of the box

the corpo · 16-09-2021 9:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896645#Comment_117896645

Well, in our school the teachers are planning to take the kids out of the room if possible, while leaving windows and doors open.

Even a 5 minute walk around the yard would be enough to reduce the levels, once a decent airflow is established. It's obviously messy and will be difficult to implement (what if there are already kids moving in the corridors, what if more than one class triggers a warning at the same time) but where possible it'll be a mitigation factor, every little bit helps.

I wish the Department would invest in hepa filters for every room, it's actually a pretty reasonable investment considering the cost of not doing it. Our PTA is looking into just fundraising for them instead.

is_that_so · 16-09-2021 11:01am

NPHET meeting today but probably no change in advice on the level of testing just yet. Masks on younger kids also up for discussion.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0916/1247099-covid-ireland/

the corpo · 16-09-2021 11:41am

New York gov just brought in mask mandate from the age of two up.

Widdensushi · 16-09-2021 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898793#Comment_117898793

That's ridiculous, improper mask wearing will lead to the spread of covid, it can be difficult to understand adults speech wearing masks, not a mind children.

zuutroy · 16-09-2021 12:33pm

If one of the kids has a cough (booked in for a test) should the other (no symptoms) stay home from school? Struggling to find the exact guidelines.

the corpo · 16-09-2021 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117899027#Comment_117899027

Yep, afraid so. If the child being tested gets the all clear, the others can return to school. The tested child needs to wait 48 hours from symptoms fading.

seamus · 16-09-2021 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898793#Comment_117898793

Typical US "Go big or go home" stuff.

The devil's in the detail. The mandate only requires that it should be worn by anyone capable of doing so. I can tell you that you'd have a lot of fun trying to keep a child under 4 wearing a mask for more than five minutes.

This is typical though, U.S. laws tend to lack subtlety.

fits · 16-09-2021 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898793#Comment_117898793

I’m really against mask wearing for young kids. Totally against it.

hesaidshesaid · 16-09-2021 4:37pm

I teach 5th class. Here is an example of a week in school.

Two kids were out on Monday as they were close contacts. Such is the stigma that the Dept of Ed and Public Health have created around Covid in schools, both were very uncomfortable about explaining their absence to other kids. An absence which should be completely normalised by now. I knew because their parents had contacted the school.

Another kid was in Monday and out Tuesday and Wednesday. Said he had a sore throat and stomach upset. Back in school today, no note from home.

His friend, who was on a play date with him last weekend, was out all week until today. Also said he had sore throat. No note from home.

Neither kid was tested, I didn’t ask them, the other kids did. So there’s absolutely no way for me or the classroom SNA to know whether they just have regular back to school sniffles or if it’s more serious. There were 2 other kids from the class on the same play date.

I’m vaccinated but got swine flu in school in 20009 and suffered from serious post-viral issues for 5 years afterwards. Really, really do not want Covid, or more particularly long Covid, as many of its symptoms mimic what I went through. I also have elderly parents, vaccinated, but vulnerable all the same.

I, like every other teacher I know, want schools open and functioning. Kids missed out on too much socially, there is evidence of it in the classroom. I just wonder how we can do this safely. Public Health are understaffed and the people at the top seem to have no comprehension of how small Irish classrooms are and how many kids are squashed into them. Dept of Ed will do literally anything to maintain the party line of ‘Schools are safe’. Anywhere is safe if you suppress the number of cases coming from it. At the moment we have all windows and doors open but that can’t continue into the winter. We got 5 CO2 monitors, there are 18 classrooms and 8 resource rooms in the school. So far, their readings are unreliable - all 5 in the same room produced different readings.

I do believe that we need to learn to live with Covid and begin to de-medicalise our existence at this point. However, I’m not convinced that kids and staff in primary schools are being adequately protected so that this can happen successfully.

16-09-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900302#Comment_117900302

Unless all 5 monitors were in the same place and orientation in the room you would expect them to have different readings.

Also, you are vaccinated. The changes of having a serious infection are massively reduced

hesaidshesaid · 16-09-2021 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900330#Comment_117900330

All 5 were beside each other. Primary kids are not vaccinated. We have no idea of the long term implications of infection, even mild infection, on them.

is_that_so · 16-09-2021 4:47pm

The requirement for children who are deemed to be close contacts of a confirmed Covid-19 case to be tested and to restrict their movements may cease at the end of this month. NPHET agreed today that this change could be implemented if no significant in-school transmission is seen in the meantime.

It also agreed that masks should not be required for children under 13 years of age, following advice from HIQA.

Weepsie · 16-09-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900330#Comment_117900330

Can still get nfected and still pass it on .

This is a real life scenario I've experienced in the past week.

Kids being sent in obviously not well. Parents having a big hoo haa when told to collect them. Vaccinated teacher then sick, everyone points finger at teacher for being out. Teachers family now on high alert, several with vaccination showing symptoms including one in a care home.

16-09-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898063#Comment_117898063

They should but i would bet my life they will not in our school at least.

fits · 16-09-2021 4:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900360#Comment_117900360

Thank goodness!

Beanybabog · 16-09-2021 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900302#Comment_117900302

I don’t know how we can demedicalise our existence at this point when the DES has updated the symptoms- snotty / stuffy noses and diarrhoea and vomiting etc. Is keeping and unwell child home enough, or as per your post should every child with any symptom at all be tested before the return to school even if perfectly well?

Beanybabog · 16-09-2021 5:24pm

And indeed if you have more than one child you’re snookered, because any time any one of them has a single symptom they’ve all to stay off until the one with the runny nose is tested?

hesaidshesaid · 16-09-2021 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900520#Comment_117900520

Public Health dictate the symptom list, not Dept of Ed.

I see where you’re coming from, it’s headwrecking for parents to have to deal with this. But realistically, I think this is Public Health’s version of ‘personal accountability’ when it comes to primary schools. They know there’s in-school transmission and that the mitigations they’ve outlined are largely unworkable in schools. For example, one of the guidelines is that if a school finds that ventilation is not adequate the ‘school architect’ should be called on to fix it. I don’t know any school in the country with a dedicated architect or the money to employ one.

PH seem to have decided that there is enough leeway in the testing system to deal with symptomatic kids. We’ve already seen over the past few weeks that the system can’t cope with testing and tracing close contacts. So their way of dealing with this is to only test those with symptoms, leave close contacts in school and provide a symptom list that includes everything but the kitchen sink in the hope that enough parents will take on the burden of bringing kids for tests. And all those kids will be put down as community transmission.

16-09-2021 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900362#Comment_117900362

Just like flu so. The vaccines have made it just like a mild flu for the vaccinated who do get infected and subsequently get ill. And just like the flu that means a small few will get very sick and a smaller number will die. And just like the flu it’s never going away.

shesty · 16-09-2021 6:37pm

Can I say something here - architects are not going to solve school ventilation issues.The reality is they will advise several options, school dependent.All will be a solution or a combination of something along the lines of a complete refit of windows, all the way up to the fitting of an entire mechanical ventilation system, including associated duct work, running through the school buildings, most likely on or above ceilings.In almost all cases, significant enough building works will be required, assuming that we are not talking about classrooms whose windows open.

There is no way the Dept of Ed will take this on, tbh.They should, maybe, but they won't.They won't have the budget to do it, aside from actually not having the will to do it.

Weepsie · 16-09-2021 6:38pm

Yes but the flu isn't nearly as contagious though. I've experienced flu first hand, and didn't enjoy it. I've been in rooms with people who had flu, and not just a cold, proper seasonal, and been fine after. This is like flu, but even with vaccines is more contagious and still stop start every day life unless people cop on.

What's happened there though, is the actions of an arsehole parent has had a knock on effect of making several people sick despite all the efforts to do everything right. Yet here we are celebrating the fact the we can relax some of the guidelines for kids. Should be cracking down on parents being as stupid to be honest.

16-09-2021 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900854#Comment_117900854

More contagious is debatable given the effect of vaccines. Cases falling with most activity back to almost normal. And even do, with vaccines it’s far less serious than flu for most

Weepsie · 16-09-2021 7:52pm

most activity isn't almost back to normal though, and any pretence that it is is just that, pretence. Yes vaccines are great and they limit the severity of it, but your ignoring the fact that even know every day life is being heavily impeded because people are being selfish and not wishing to look after their own kids.

Is more contagious debateable? I guess we don't test as much for flu, in fact we hardly test for it at all, but that said a vaccine for flu, will make a flu seem like a bit of a cold maybe at worse, this will make it feel like a mild flu. A mild flu is right pain in the bollox, so people should still be expected to have a bit common sense, particularly in environment such as schools were the kids are not really the ones at risk of illness, but the ones capable of spreading it.

josip · 16-09-2021 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900362#Comment_117900362

All of that took place within a week?

Weepsie · 16-09-2021 10:24pm

Give or take, yes

17-09-2021 7:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901078#Comment_117901078

Is the belief that we can engineer a situation where no one ever gets ill with a transmissible virus again? Because that appears to be the tone.

BobHopeless · 17-09-2021 7:53am

Daughter has woken up with sore throat, cough, sniffles but no temperature. Will i get my knickers in a twist or just give her some paracetamol and let her stay home from school and sleep it off. Eh option B it is.

BobHopeless · 17-09-2021 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898793#Comment_117898793

World's gone mad, absolutely mad.

Marty Bird · 17-09-2021 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902315#Comment_117902315

I'd let her stay off as it’s Friday, if the symptoms settle over weekend back in Monday.

BobHopeless · 17-09-2021 8:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902325#Comment_117902325

That's exactly what im doing. Unfortunately there are people out there rushing their kids down to testing centres with a few sniffles for christ sake we've lost the run of ourselves.

kippy · 17-09-2021 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902315#Comment_117902315

In an ideal world you would us an antigen test of some description and make your informed decisions from there.

There simply isn't enough push for people to start using antigen testing in cases like this and/or in high contact/high contacts workplaces/professions.

mohawk · 17-09-2021 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902332#Comment_117902332

Have you considered that there are parents out there who aren’t doing it out of fear of covid. Runny nose is a symptom of Delta. It’s also a very common cold symptom. Parents are getting their kids tested to rule out Covid so that their child doesn’t have to isolate until all symptoms are gone. Also your child is mixing with other children in school. I know there is a parent in my sons class going through Chemo right now and another who needs a heart transplant. I got my son tested last weekend and he was negative and I sent his to school this week and back to all his afternoon activities knowing that he can’t spread it. I personally don’t want it on my conscious is my son spread to to a vulnerable household when all it would of taken from me is a quick test and keeping him home if needed.

Lumen · 17-09-2021 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902896#Comment_117902896

Whilst I can't fault your actions, it's difficult to see how this kind of approach is sustainable. We have no reason to think that vaccines will be better against future variants than they are against current variants, which means the status quo maybe as good as it gets. As I see it we're aimlessly stumbling into a permanent state of medicalised education (and society more broadly).

I'm not jumping up and down shouting about psychological damage to our children (as some are), since I believe that children are generally far more robust, pragmatic, and adaptable than adults give them credit for, but at the same time I just don't think it's right.

In fairness neither do the medical authorities, who are currently trying to turn around their oil tanker of doom with talk of dramatically scaling back the testing regime.

"preventable death" is hardly a new concept in public life or public health.

BobHopeless · 17-09-2021 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902896#Comment_117902896

You've your own approach and i respect that, i've mine. If she get's worse she'll be down for a test and if not back to school Monday.

mohawk · 17-09-2021 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902949#Comment_117902949

There can’t really be normality as long as a runny nose or a mild cough are reasons for children to be sent home from school and told they can’t go to football training. It’s frustrating when you know that they aren’t ‘sick’ but want them to go about their normal lives.

If the very, very high risk need boosters then they should get them and let rest of society get on with things. We probably really need to be increasing our bed capacity over next few years so health service doesn’t come to a standstill every time there is an outbreak.

mohawk · 17-09-2021 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903000#Comment_117903000

No argument here. You are entitled to make judgment call when it comes to your own child. I think people forget that.

Vaccinated30 · 17-09-2021 12:28pm

I have 3 in school, if one is sick I will do an antigen test, if negative the others go to school and sick child will stay home, if no improvement a pcr test and go from there. If positive antigen then obviously all are out. I told the school this is my plan.

Would be nice to not have to pay 10e for an antigen test and have them supplied!

iamwhoiam · 17-09-2021 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902346#Comment_117902346

I agree . Grand child had a sore throat a few weeks ago . She is prone to sore throats and often gets them for a day or two . She was kept home and antigen test done . It was negative and repeated next morning , again negative . Her sore throat disappeared as it usually does so she was back in school after two negative antigen tests

I don’t understand why antigen testing is not encouraged in a child with no close contact history

fits · 17-09-2021 1:21pm

I’m participating in a trial for antigen testing over next few weeks.

fun loving criminal · 17-09-2021 1:28pm

What's up with kids being out of school lately?

I was in a shop this morning and a mother and young enough son, around 8 years old and the kid coughing non-stop and no mask because I think Ireland thinks kids are immune to this virus.

Vaccinated30 · 17-09-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903732#Comment_117903732

Ive heard numerous times from numerous people even this week

They said kids cant get it but my niece/son/grandchild got it ..

It would send you crazy telling people they said kids dont get really sick from it not that they dont get it...

mohawk · 17-09-2021 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903732#Comment_117903732

Kids do get it. Statistically they are more likely to get a milder version of the disease then an adult.

fun loving criminal · 17-09-2021 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117904548#Comment_117904548

I very much understand that. But here's a kid with a cough and going about spreading whatever germs he had.

is_that_so · 17-09-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117904681#Comment_117904681

It's what kids do and in normal times we'd generally ignore it.

kippy · 17-09-2021 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903688#Comment_117903688

I participated in one in early August and have been using LIDL ones since.

But there's no excuse fo the trials happening "NOW" - should have happened ages ago - and what exactly is being "trialled" i wonder?

Why not do what the NHS did and make the test kits easily available? Responsible people will use them. Surely a better situation than what is there currently.