What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Education and secular laws and values will slowly push religion into fading out by itself. It takes decades and it cannot be enforced, but it will happen naturally and organically and we're seeing it happening in Europe. This is why I'm so against cultures where the religion is the law.

But at the end of the day Dick, its your own personal experiences that shapes your own personal perspectives.. and you don't normally have to worry too much about the majorities who do no harm, but the minorities , and especially followers of a religion that has proven track record when it comes to mass murder and mayhem...now they are worth worrying about.

Certainly not to the degree that they should all be tarred with the one brush though? That’s not only unreasonable, it’s completely irrational. I mean, all the major religions at least have a similar history of mass murder and mayhem, the same could be said of any ideology really, but I’m just not someone who blames sons for the sins of their fathers, and so I’m not given to the same sort of scaremongering that’s done of any particular groups in any society based upon their ideological affiliations which really doesn’t tell me a whole lot about them. It’s rather more individual than you’re trying to make out, because of their own individual interpretation of an ideology which they claim justifies their actions.

I wasn’t too concerned for example that after ten minutes searching for ham in the local convenience store, I asked the guy behind the counter do they stock ham… only for it to occur to me as soon as the words were out of my mouth that it’s unlikely they actually stock pork products of any description. A social faux pas, nothing more, and certainly nothing I imagined I was going to be shot for. Y’know, perspective like, rather than imagining the worst of people based upon whatever ideas you wish to associate with them based upon your own ideas!

You have to let it go jm. The past cannot be changed, but the future, your own future can.

Your prejudice might be warranted in your view, but it only causes harm. Harm to yourself and potentially to other people who aren't related to the particular chain of events that led to your current views.

I really don't like to use kumbaya phrases but what is true, is true: we are all human. The fight of ideals is the most futile, never ending, never fruitful game ever.

The only way to become wiser and better (and ultimately happier in yourself) is to fight your own (negative) views, not those of others. I would not approach a radical Muslim either. These are lost people. Lost in the obscenity of their views. But to jump the gun and pre-judge everyone you meet from a particular background because they may or may not be a radical is simply, unhealthy for yourself and only contributes to generating more hate and discontent in the world. Ironically, that's when you are at the biggest risk of becoming the very thing you despise. Think about that.

Ultimately, if you really can't deal with it, you should just avoid any and all contact with anyone associated in any way with Islam. Which in Ireland (if that's where you are) shouldn't be too difficult TBH. But a path of activism against an ideal or culture, will always invariably bring you sorrow.

Don't worry no one, no matter how determined, is taking over your society, country, or the world any time soon.

If only it was that easy...

It would be irrational to change my views of a majority of any group of people based upon the behaviour of a minority of people who associate themselves with that group, as though they actually represent the views of the majority of that group. In reality it has always been the extremists who latch onto any ideology and corrupt it for their own ends. Rather than being radicalised by an ideology, they corrupt the ideology to suit themselves which in their minds justifies their abhorrent behaviour towards other people. It doesn’t matter what the ideology is, whether it’s Islam, Christianity, or whatever else.

I don’t believe for a minute that you actually think Muslims are compelled to commit atrocities because their religious texts tell them to, but there’s no doubt it’s certainly what you want everyone else to believe. The trouble with that idea is that people actually do know better, not only because of their own direct subjective experiences, but because they too have the opportunity to learn from a whole rake of different sources to inform themselves with a more objective perspective, rather than just taking what one person says as gospel.

I’ve mentioned him before in this thread but one of my co-workers is from Afghanistan, went back to Afghanistan recently after being away for ten years. He’d actually forgotten what it was like to be surrounded by gunfire and bombing and all the rest of it, that he was telling me when he used cower to avoid being killed, his family who were used to it were amused by his behaviour. For them it was a normal everyday experience.

The way you go on jm anyone could be forgiven for thinking all the men under 30 are primed Taliban extremists, when in reality the best you can do by way of an example of Muslim extremism in Ireland is that a group of Muslims violated lockdown restrictions to meet for prayer!

No disrespect jm but you’re over-egging the pudding just a tad when you’re trying to suggest things like parallel legal systems, people having to act in whatever manner because their religious texts compel them (in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary depending upon various scholars interpretations), and you appear to completely ignore evidence that it’s not religious beliefs which influence social policies, but politics.

It was a revolution some time in the 70’s which caused Iran to become the country it is now in an attempt to quell what was purported to be the influence of Western values on Islamic society, but all it was in reality, was just a fcuknugget rising to power (as happened recently in the US with Trump in an attempt to quell liberal democratic values, and look how that turned out!), but it would be wilful ignorance to imagine as you’re trying to suggest that it’s because Islam can’t change or Sharia can’t change that is the reason for the way Iran or any of the Stans are the way they are today (I’m going to have to consciously stop myself saying that the next time I’m referring to anyone from there because I’m a lazy prick who can’t remember all the stans! Cheers jm for that one 😂), when there are people still alive in those countries who remember when this is the way they were in the recent past, not 6,000 years ago -

To suggest that immigrants into Europe could ever achieve the same sort of thing without a similar revolution is just ridiculous, not even worth entertaining.

They’re really not interested in taking over Europe or anything else, they are for the most part only interested in escaping being killed in their own countries, while maintaining the values of their own people and keeping to themselves for the most part. Precisely because they’re acutely aware of how they are perceived in Europe - they know from their relatives and friends who live here already the good, the bad and the ugly points about the West, but it offers better opportunities and quality of life than their risk of staying in their countries of origin, just like there are lucrative opportunities and far better quality of life for Westerners in those countries if they’re willing to take the risk of making a life for themselves there, as many Westerners have done and still do without having first hand experience of these countries before they go over.

Iker, I've lived in Muslim Countrys for the best part of 25 years, most of my friends are Muslims, Each and every day, I talk with some them. Share their family events etc. Some of these friendships go back the full 25 years, but even the newer ones, time wise, are good solid friendships,strange as it may seem. With one or two exceptions, ( where I was dissapointed when a so called friend did not live up to the name, wolf in sheeps clothing type situation. ) Here I'm speaking about the Man, the Muslim, and not the Muslim and his Religion, Islam. I have no qualms about the Muslim the Man, but I do have concerns about Islam the religion, about its spread and its barbaric practices. I think that its spread will bring sorrow to many, and not only in terror attacks, but look at the disruption its causing in say France ( but not limited to) at the moment. Plenty of Islamic no go ( for non-believers ) areas, where Islam rules in several EU cities. As a result, there's a growing push-back in Countrys which earlier on were welcoming to Muslims. Now why is that, do you think?. Could it be that Islam is not culturally compatible with the west. Do I fear an Islamic takeover in Ireland? No, I don't. Will my Grandchildren see a vastly greater Islamic input in Ireland? Yes, they will. And not only in Ireland, but the EU as well. As a force for change, Islam punches way above its weight.

But aside from that, Thanks anyway for your friendly advice, I know where you are coming from, and its not a bad place.

Well, whats currently happening in the UK bears out what you are saying Iker. And I don't think that anyone has much of a problem with controlled emigration, especially where they fill needs, and become self sufficient, and integrate here in Ireland. But an openended form of migration is not a good thing, and we have a situation here presently where the Govt are about to fast track 17'000 "undocumented" migrants, some of whom were previously scheduled to be removed from the Country. Theres two very good posters here on this forum, Wibbs and Klaz ( Klaz is presently taking a well deserved break, but hopefully will be back soon) They were both very eloquent, making good constructive and coherent arguments. You can back up a bit in the time line, and you will come across some of their posts.

Yes Bubblypop, this discussion has been hashed and re hashed several times, but the very fact that theres even one who should have been deported long ago, but is still here means that the system is not working. And Im sure that theres more than one.

The term is illegal, not undocumented

According to the Govt spokesperson that I heard explaining the "Amnesty" ( if you like ) he was trying to white wash the statement a bit and used the word " Undocumented", as if it was just a minor issue. Sounds so much better than "Illegal", don't you think? ( and please, don't do a Bubblypop on it, ( 😂😂😂 Sorry, Bubblypop,,,,,I could not resist it.....Mea Culpa) and ask who and where are my sources.. prove it in other words...it was on TV or a newspaper, I don't remember which, and I did't record / copy paste it.)

After an afternoon in Dublin today,I can say that the net importation of people from Europe and points East and South appears to consist mostly of chavs. Have we not got enough already? The Irish presence was maintained by a great amount of beggars (spare change,bud?). Romanian gypsies appear to be out in force,especially around O'Connell Bridge. An Afghan protest was blocking the pavement outside the GPO (and it appeared to be supporters of the guy allegedly holding the Panjshir Valley against the Taliban). Lots of Gardai about, in twos and threes,some of whom were quite engaged in their phones. mask wearing appeared to be very optional but most places were insisting on masks inside. Only McD's asked to see Covid certs on the mobile,of the many places visited.