The walking dead .. most of the wests car industry

I couldn't keep watching as yer man's undersized shirt looks rediculous!

i know its rediculous

I think it will be more gradual, there is still resistance in countries like Germany as they dont think twice about driving 1,000km or driving to the French coast for their holliers so that would be off putting for now

Would be great if Tesla's came down in price for us if they set up production in Europe but I won't hold my breath.

If they want everyone to be driving EV's then everyone needs to be alone to afford to drive one.

Not only will the Tesla price not come down, it’s gone up.

the model 3 LR (the only Tesla you need) is near as dammit €65k now, or €70k if you’re using their financing.

it’s bonkers.

as for “the Wests” Kodak moment, if you check the data, VW sold more ID4’s here in Ireland from March to July than Tesla has ever sold in Ireland ever across all their models.

”the West” is very much awake to this, and cars like the ID4 are right in the sweet spot of range, functionality and price. why would anyone buy a Tiguan is the real question.

I have to ask again, what is the absolute obsession with Teslas? They are total shytboxes as regards materials and build quality?!

The big car conglomerates are making huge leaps to be out of ICE earlier than anticipated or demanded. Its far more likely that they will have the economies of scale to invest in development and keep their prices lower and therefore eat the lunch of the likes of Tesla quite quickly.

I'm a tesla owner and it's a bit disingenuous to call them shyteboxes. The materials used are pretty decent. The leather seats in my model 3 are very comfortable, electrically adjustable and heated (all 5 are heated). The build quality is good....not brilliant but not as bad as you make out.

The software is streets ahead of anything else. So quick, user friendly and intuitive to use. To put it in context my wife has a new BMW 840d and the screen on it looks like something from the 80's with more buttons scattered around the cabin than a jumbo jet!!

The Tesla charging network is a thing of beauty. Reverse in, plug in and you are charging in less than 10 seconds at high speed. Everything can be controlled off the app which is also incredibly user friendly. A friend dropped me a pin on Google maps on Monday past. I clicked on the link, shared it to the car and a couple of seconds later it was on the display screen. So simple.

Have a read on the ev forum about the ID3 and ID4 software problems.

It's my wife's car.

People buy into brands -

Styling / materials , whatever - a lot of people like VW ,

Will the Megan be much cheaper than an Id 3? Probably not much .

Better ? Depends on the buyer ..

I smell Hyperbole.

What'll kill a car company is a lack of people with money to buy its products. It needs to keep producing new cars to stay in business - and all companies are governed by this. Cars are fast reaching the point of non-affordability for people to own and operate - or are being propped up the PCP Ponzi schemes. I don't actually know where the money comes from if it's never actually paid off.....

Anyway.

That'll kill Tesla as fast as it'll kill BMW.

Modern car combanies are not going to get Kodak'd. What happened to Kodak is the exact opposite of what people think. As digital started to become a thing, Kodak positioned itself as an Imaging company, rather than as a Film company. They made digital cameras that could dock with printers and would give you the exact same photos you normally got from the chemist. This was great until Whatsapp came along and people no longer wanted printed photos to show off. Fujifilm, on the other hand, realised that all their film experience made them a 'chemical' company, and they moved into stuff like cosmetics, and also still produce digital cameras and instant film.

Anyway, for one thing - the transition away from dinosaur burners has been well telegraphed, so it can be planned for and product and technology roadmaps drawn up.

Indeed.

So literally nothing to worry about, frankly.

Chinese quality is, and will remain, suspect. I've imported vehicles (and other stuff) from China, btdt, have the T-shirt.

And shipping costs now being what they are ($15k a container now versus €1100 a couple of years ago), means landed costs will be higher. Which means the gap between those and EU made ones will be smaller.

One thing the whole pandemic and Suez crisis has brought home is that manufacturing now needs to take place closer to consumption. Having entire production lines running slow or closed for the want of a €1 part from the other side of the world has exposed the JIT model as not infallible.

This is why you see the like of chip manufacturers rushing to build capacity in the EU & US.

a huge difference between the engineering ethos of Japan & China tbh.

Yea now but my point is Japan was once in the marketplace as is China is now. Things change some younger people on this forum don't remember when Japanese meant cheap and poor quality.

Fewer components and extras to go wrong

Fair point but still.

60% of Porsches are still powered by just a petrol engine in Europe (at least in the first half of 2021), meanwhile the 911 is their third biggest seller of 2021, ahead of the Taycan. The Cayenne and Macan are their biggest sellers.

https://www.carmag.co.za/news/best-selling-porsche-models-first-half-2021/

You sound like the UK automakers talking about the Japanese in the 60's.

I remember that early Japanese cars (early 70's) were sold on their extras (radio, heaters tinted glass) they were reliable but rusted like hell. Techwise the UK wasn't behind, in fact early Japanese cars used modified copies of British engines.

I remember going to athletics races as a kid in the early 80s. We'd all pile into the back of the coach's Datsun. There were a lot of back roads. One wet day we were driving through a larger puddle than normal and he warned us all to lift our feet. A few seconds later the rear footwells filled up with a couple of inches (because all we had back then were inches) of water. The floor under the carpet was riddled with holes.

Pretty well all volume cars of that era rusted through. I'm old enough to remember how quick new cars would deteriorate. Some more than others, Fiats, Datsuns, Toyotas, Lancias, Mazdas were very poor.

My Da and Grandad drove Renaults and they spent huge time protecting them from rust, having them garaged, using protective coatings etc and still it was a losing battle.

Our neighbour had a magnificent Citroën CX from new, but the rot wasn't long about setting in there either.

Yep, remember the Fiats as well don't remember the Renaults being bad back then. Our family had VWs and British makes and can't remember that much rust with them (maybe they were too new?)

Spot on.