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4 year olds able to change gender in Scotland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It will happen hence Why this is being put in place ,

    It's the same situation with anti LGBT bullying in schools here , where there was calls to remove a anti bullying document used to discuss LGBT bullying because it made little or no mention of gay and lesbians less the 5 mentions of either ,but over 4 pages trans gets mentioned 70+ times ....

    I believe that's there is litterally only a handful of teens who identify as trans in schools so why the need to over representation a tiny minority exactly...


    Apologies for the sarky reply above ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You heard the man - take a ticket!

    Fuck it, you can have mine. I've made the point.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Thinking that transitioning gender is purely a body issue pretty ignorant, to be fair.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Apology accepted, but this really is conspiracy talk. "It will happen....' - 'LGBT Bullying in schools....' - this really is what you want to believe far more than rational informed thinking.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Why would trans become the dominant point of any LGBT bullying or education in schools when the numbers are something like less than 20 out of 1million school going children ,

    It's a massive over representation in any situation ,

    Imagine discussing LGBT relationships in schools and trans is the dominant part of any discussion ,Why ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Again, you're still in conspiracy theory mode here - you've used the phrase 'LGBT bullying' twice in two posts without defining it, proving it or even giving me any idea you even know what you're talking about other than it being a provocative soundbite.

    I'm sticking to facts: there is no mention of coersion, lack of parental consent or the active "social transiitioning" you mentioned a few posts ago anywhere other than the Daily Mail. None.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭circadian


    Well done to the Daily Mail. A headline designed for clicks and outrage. Worked a charm as usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Yeah it's like shooting fish in a barrel getting money out of the permanently outraged.


    It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact this harms people. For all the crocodile tears for the children, there is not a jot of caring at all.

    But hey, as long as we get a cheap laugh or two on the internet, eh,?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Only two posters here have mentioned the daily fail and the far right .....

    Suprised nah not one bit , very American it's not happening it's fake news !!!!

    Suppose it beats the same usual two or three running around chasing their own tails and confusing themselves about what they are even claiming



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @Manky O Toole do not post in this thread again



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Are you going to be apologising for this sarky response as well? Or would you rather explain why you've chosen to attack posters who have merely proven that the media institution has lied, rather than engage in the more factual counter-arguments that have been presented to you?

    Ad homeinem exposed.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There were literally zero teens that identified as gay, bisexual, trans or any other 'non normal ' when I was in secondary school from 88-93.

    Surprisingly enough, turns out a lot of those people I was in school with were gay, bisexuals and trans. Why did no-one know back then?

    because they could not come out and say exactly who they were! Most were in their 30s when they eventually felt able and comfortable to admit who they really were.

    anything that allows young people to be who they are and express themselves as they want to, is very welcome in my view.

    I don't know why anyone would want to stop anyone else being who they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Surprisingly enough, turns out a lot of those people I was in school with were gay, bisexuals and trans. Why did no-one know back then?

    Ah come on. You do seem to come from quite the 'eclectic' (your word) background. You appear to be suggesting that the prevalence of gay or trans is far far larger that the once suggested 10% I don't even think gay is as much as 5%. I'd instinctively say it's at most, 3%.

    edit:


    An estimated 2.7% of the UK population aged 16 years and over identified as lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB) in 2019, an increase from 2.2% in 2018.

    I always trust my instincts :D



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, I am from a small town in Ireland.

    My best friend is gay, she didn't come out until her thirties. Turns out she wasn't the only one in our year of approx 70 pupils! Amazing huh?

    So I don't know about everyone I was I school with, but I know at least 8 gay and one transgender person that was in my year.

    Those pupils were afraid/didn't know how to express themselves when we were in school, I think it's great that the younger generation are more relaxed and can express themselves freely now



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Yeah that's all fine. Most people in Ireland are either from a small town or from a rural setting. Same here. If you are from a small town in Ireland then that means your sample size is small. Which if extrapolated according to your personal experience the prevalence of gay and trans is much larger than what the census figures say.

    The other explanation for your experience is you personally knew all the gay and trans people in your class/year/school. Which would be a bit unusual, possible I suppose, but certainly unique if so. Definitely an 'eclectic' circle of friends you keep.

    The number of school acquaintances/friends that identify as gay, or transpired to be gay since my school days, is exactly zero. Can't count myself in that of course. So your experience doesn't match what I think is more the norm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭circadian


    I'm still waiting on actual evidence of the things you claimed is happening in schools and childcare. The more you fail to provide this the more accurate the point is that media outlets just push stuff like this to keep the revenue coming in from people actively looking to be outraged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    I suppose it's also unusual that you know all the people from school?

    I would know max 10pc people from school from about 150 in my year.

    The anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful. The ones survey on 16 year olds is s little more helpful, but if course still isn't a full picture.

    Post edited by km991148 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Regardless of the statistics, it's a pretty safe bet that's a lot easier for a teenager to come out as being gay or bi or trans now that it was when I was a teenager - and no one is going to convince me that that's a bad thing - so I'm all for information.

    But - and here is the bit some people just don't seem to be able to get their head around and I can not understand why - information is NOT the same bloody thing as coercion!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Of course I know the people that turned out to be gay, I knew everyone in my year. I don't consider that unusual. The fact that 8 out of approx 70 are gay is not a huge amount of people.

    None of whom were comfortable being 'out' at the time, younger people now are much more open and accepting and comfortable to be who they are. It's great.

    If talking about these things makes it easier for kids to be who they want to be, I'm all for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭circadian


    Yep I'd agree with this. I'm glad I grew up in an understanding household (parents come from varied and colourful backgrounds) so when I came out as bisexual they were supportive, if not a little taken aback.


    I did, however, lose friends and in my late teens had school friends make snide remarks if I happened to be in the toilets of a pub at the same time. Not to mention a few gay friends saying several times that I was "just greedy". I'll admit that what I dealt with wasn't much and pales in comparison to most others but the point still stands, a bit of education and awareness could have made many lives a lot easier.


    What I'm happy to see is the younger generation now seems to be a bit more proactive in dissuading bullying, I'm sure it still happens but I don't think it's the pile on it used to be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,013 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭circadian


    Of course not. We see the headline and we get all rage and run with stories of 2 year old being pressured into gender dysmorphia as a result of a government agenda.


    This guidance is non-statutory and is designed to help education authority, grant-aided 

    and independent schools to make decisions effectively but cannot be prescriptive about 

    what is required in individual circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    All made up of course talk about agenda


    "We see the headline and we get all rage and run with stories of 2 year old being pressured into gender dysmorphia as a result of a government agenda."

    Post edited by Gatling on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Isn't that what most of this thread is about tho? I mean what are you actually worried about in this guidance. So far we have seen people discussing medical transition for children (yeah right, like thats going to happen to a 4 year old), people trying to convert people to trans (yeah right - about as much chance of that happening as trying conversion therapy on trans people) and all sorts of imaginative ideas.


    Of course - I doubt you will answer, even if you have unmuted me (literally creating your own closed loop by not allowing for different optinions..)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    And actually - I had to re-read this (sometimes I post in the same conversational style, but sometimes its hard to read)

    Are you saying that organisations like the DM do not try and push an agenda? And that the talk about an agenda is made up?

    Am I reading this correctly - you bleat on about TRAs pushing an agenda all the time, yet you fail to acknowledge that one of the most toxic commercial entities are not even capable of pushing an agenda for oh I don't know what.. massive profit?

    I suppose you think YouTube is just like a charity putting nice videos out there for people to watch?


    This is a whole new level really!



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You're proving out point for us at this stage.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    I guess if you ignore them too you won't need to listen to opposing views? 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    But still strong enough.

    On the one side, we have the actual document.

    On the other we have the Daily mail making ups all sorts of stuff and then you believing them, claiming conpsiracies, lies and agendas and attacking posters with sarcastic posts and generally ignoring arguments.

    Been through the same **** from the flat-earthers, the anti-vaxxers, the qAnon Trump deniers and the Westboro church / assorted radical Christians.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Fear mongering and lies in the name of profit.

    While in the real world, far away from the authors of this crap (these "articles"), real people are harmed.

    Always the same. The ones putting it out there (and their disciples) have no consequences to suffer.

    Now that's weak.



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