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Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is he?

    or is he an Irish citizen? As is his right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,774 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    If you were to design a fella to be President of Ireland it would be him. Interested in arts, sport, culture and politics.

    But on this issue/furore with the NI commemoration it is a bit of a black mark IMO.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The case is ongoing in the court. But the current position is anybody born in the North is automatically a British citizen. They also have a right to Irish citizenship by the GFA. Just because you claim Irish citizenship does not mean your British citizenship gets denounced. Can you denounce your British citizenship while still living in the UK???? Dont think so. So anybody born in the North and still living there like Gerry Adams by law is a British citizen.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Its not a requirement to be British citizen to live in the UK. Irish citizens have been able to live indefinitely within the UK since Independence. So it would be perfectly possible for Gerry Adams to be an Irish citizen, renounce his British nationality and remain a resident of the North.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I have avoided answering this now 3 times but you keep gauding and next you’ll be say I am dodging it. This is a long answer but I know no other way to answer it. This is a WhatsApp message I received from a friend just tonight. Of course I could be repeated 100s of times.

    You ask what caused fear to justify protestants to move home

    Here is the WhatsApp message

    “There is no hierarchy when it comes to loss and suffering! But, even in a country where death, shootings and bombings became ‘everyday life’, Darkley stands as one of the most evil, incomprehensible mass murders of our time.

    By 1983 we thought we’d seen it all!

    Darkley’s Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church was a ‘Gospel hall’ - in reality a wooden hut, used by local Pentecostals to evangelise, sing and pray! The village, near the border, is tiny. It’s isolated and vulnerable, and unfortunately, situated in an area with a history of genocide against the Protestant pockets scattered amid the Republican background. But no matter what - it was/is a church. A church!!!! It takes a special kind of evil to even consider what happened. 

    On Sunday 20 November, around 6 pm, the congregation were going about their usual Sunday evening worship. Around 60 Christian men, women and children were joined in song. God must have chosen the hymn that evening! - "Are You Washed in the Blood of the Lamb"

    You can hear the hymn in the audio tape accompanying this piece. Then, unbelievably, you’ll hear the gunfire! Enter mass murderer Michael McKevitt (yes the same guy from the Tullyvallen Massacre, the Kingsmill massacre and later the Omagh bomb)! I would imagine McKevitt carried the Ruger semi-automatic rifle, since it was used in the other murders (Maybe he had a good feeling about this particular weapon)

    The plan, like Tullyvallen, was simply to enter the hall and spray the congregation with bullets, killing as many as possible! Simple! - Burst through the door and start shooting! At a room full of innocent men, women and children! - Women and children! - til your gun runs out of bullets, then run away!

    Luckily, it didn’t go entirely to plan. When McKevitt and his 2 chums arrived they were met at the door by 3 church elders and immediately opened fire on the men, killing 59yo Harold Brown and 39yo Victor Cunningham where they stood. 44yo David Wilson, shot and seriously wounded, staggered into the hall to warn everyone, collapsed in front of everyone, and died.

    Put off by the change to plan, the animals reloaded and started firing randomly into the wooden hut from outside. Another round of bullets splintered and shattered through the hall and the people inside. How noone else was killed is a miracle, but another 7 of the congregation were seriously injured!

    It’ so easy to say! - another 7 injured! It’s almost dismissive. The Pastor’s daughter was shot in the elbow and leg!! Someone had 6 bullets in their stomach! 26 children cowered beneath their seats!

    60 people were injured that day. 60 people, that after a minute or 2 of shock, began to realise what had just happened, began to realise they were surrounded by blood, injured friends and a dead man lying in the aisle - 2 more in the hall. Can you imagine being in that room with your child?? 3 dead & 7 injured says nothing of the impact of this event, either in terms of the affect on the people in the hall that day, or on the sense of fear that again ravaged Protestants.

    Our Micky really was a man for all seasons - Tullyvallen, Kingsmill, Darkley and the Omagh bomb (obviously amongst a pile of other killings)

    Strange that the killings were committed by the Catholic Reaction Force, the South Armagh Republican Action Force, the INLA and the Real IRA.

    McKevitt died in January this year 2021 with a ‘comfort letter’ - unwanted for any crimes in the UK. Obtained on his behalf by SinnFein they obviously thought a lot of him

    The people in the church that day have no such comfort - not even the comfort of the truth!

    Nobody is asking why????

    Here is a link to the audio tape - be advised some may feel distressed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1168282793388007424

    The quality isn’t great so turn it up loud if you want to hear the screams of the women and children! Then maybe send it to your local politician

    All they would ask is that you remember them!

    Harold Browne (59) - farmer - married with 3 children

    Victor Cunningham (39) - married with 2 children

    David Wilson (44) - married with 2 children”



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'd say pseudointellectualism and repeating points that you refused to address when they have been repeatedly debunked is lower.

    I've attempted playing the proverbial ball in our previous encounters, the issue is that you pick the low hanging fruit, reply with flowery language with a veneer of accuracy (the best lies always come from a seed of truth of course)....and then when challenged, you peg it away from the discussion only to come back a while later and repeat the same nonsense, entirely debunked points as if nothing happened.

    My issue and critique are not for you as a person, I don't know you from Adam. They're direct critiques of your, 'debate' technique.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    What a convenient whatsapp your friend sent you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Would you conclude that the fai are also trying to provoke bad international relations by calling your team roi?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He gets a lot of those. Or if no lucky ones come along he will be lucky enough to hear something down the pub



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Apologies if I was unreasonable with you in the past. Some of the attacks on me are so nasty and personal that maybe I lost the run of myself and hit out at you.

    sorry

    as for you question here. I honestly don’t know whether dup were first to raise this. I have just posted what my local alliance councillor is saying. Tbh is is unusually fairly United across all parties bar SDLP and sf. So I am interested why it is so important to many on here to keep pitching it as if it is a dup only issue.

    tbh it is probably very good politically for unionist parties so I guess they are bleeding it for all it’s worth



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Gerry Adams was born and currently lives in the North? He would have been born a British citizen automatically. Every jurisdiction has different rules about renouncing citizenship but I think you can't renounce your citizenship of a jurisdiction while still living in it. So it is unlikely he ever has tho it is possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I would agree that I don’t think it is a language but it is not just an accent. There are lots of ulsterscots words in every day use which are unique words. And yes I am quite sure many are using it to draw attention to the support Irish culture gets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    But McKevitt got 20 years in the Irish courts. Was he given a letter of comfort from the British Government. If he was in prison in Ireland, how would it be possible to try him in the British Courts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Guys I know you like to try and undermine me and call me a liar. And you seem to get away with it at will. Would a screenshoot of the WhatsApp with timings help evidence?

    it’s sad when you shot the messenger.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Who the bejaysus sends a WhatsApp message like that to anyone....ever?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The reality is that reconciliation will come when its economically expedient for it to come. The signs are that day has dawned and the Ulster peoples are just about ready to embrace it.


    The old fashioned bigots will be left stranded on the beach as the tide drags everyone else to better times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    What Question, deflection again.

    Do you really think that Brits see you you as one of their own, only used when they need a few votes or as to avoid their failures in supporting Brexit.

    Btw you said in an above post that there is no hierarchy of Murders, but seem to only to mention republican ones and never loyalist/british army terrorist attacks, practice what you preach or people will see you as a troll, who nothing to better to comment on an Irish site.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,125 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    If it's insignificant even then him not going shouldn't be anything remarkable either.

    Tbh considering the decline in religion generally, and the increasing separation of state from religion. This kind of event is an anachronism of the past, not the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    You just claimed that Pres. Higgins was brainwashed by the Irish education system - the most laughable observation anyone could make about Michael D. One thing he has, is his own mind and conscience. He has devoted his life to social justice and that is what he is well known the world over for speaking on.https://twitter.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1439218498211831812?s=20



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1439649923939643399

    No wonder people think Unionists have no leadership, look at this "Moderates" comment. The equivalent of saying I know we robbed 60 off you, but we're upset that we left that 260.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    FFS, literally nobody who uses the terms "six counties" or "the north" thinks partition didn't happen.

    Here you are again in a thread with outright lies like your yet again repeated claim that the IRA caused partition. IIRC you made this claim elsewhere and I replied at the time with the same outline of history as others have here. It makes me very skeptical of any historical claims you make.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Honestly, I don't believe you. I was very much in the side of unionists in the whole United Ireland debate.

    You kept in until you found something to argue with me about!

    It doesn't matter whether the DUP were the first to raise this issue or not. If it's not political, they should stay out of it.

    Pretty much like Michael D



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Perhaps something that would mark the expulsions of Catholics from the Shipyards, ethnic cleansing, and killings of 500 odd people who died violently around that time in the north?



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wouldnt it be great if we could all agree that all sides did terrible stuff here and that none of it should ever happen again. Because I wouldnt wish living through 30 years of hate, shooting, bombing and rioting on anyone. Simple enough, yeah ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Organisers - Dear President Higgins, we'd to invite you to this ecumencial Church service to mark the centenary of the political partition of the island and the establishment of the jurisdiction known as Northern Ireland.

    MDH - Thanks for the invite, but I won't be able to attend.

    DUP - THON LITTLE MAUN BELOW IS SNUBBING HER GRACIOUS MAJESTY!!!

    Press - SHOCK AS PRESIDENT OF REPUBLIC OF IRELAND SNUBS CENTENARY COMMEMORATION AND QUEEN

    MDH - Sorry what?

    The Chattering Classes - Well Mr Higgins should really reconsider, its sooooo important to peace and reconciliation and he's wrong about the constitutional issues and it doesn't matter about symbolism, its just a Church Service and he should definitely go and has anyone asked John Bruton what he thinks??

    MDH - Jesus suffering f***

    Pope Francis - I feel ya bro.

    MDH - I've heard everyone's opinion and I'm not attending

    Everyone: STOP POLITICISING THIS SITUATION MICHAEL DEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

    MDH - I'm going to bed.



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