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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He was having an affair at the time of Sophie's death, a young piece of fluff by all accounts..

    Milita Nikolic, undoubtedly good looking, of Serbian parents, her father murdered her mother when she was 7, brought up in the harsh environment of French care homes with her little brother.

    Perhaps Daniel made the same mistake as you: regarding her as a piece of fluff.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    "Covered in blood", you say. There were spatters or splashes of what was discovered to be Mme. DuPlantier's blood but none belonging to the assailant or anyone else. The chief suspect had already given a blood sample so a match could have been made. They found nothing. No blood, other than that of the victim, no hair, skin fragments, fingerprints or clothing fibres. The forensic testing method used to deduce this has never been called into question for being unsafe or inaccurate. So what if that gate was still in storage and re-tested today. Would anything new be discovered, even allowing for more advanced testing methods? I seriously doubt it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    A grand piece of fluff too be honest...

    Good leg on her, but the eyes are steel cold..

    Not the type to be understanding of one more pint and I'll be home..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Looking at those hands, I'd say she could lift a cavity block easy enough.

    But I believe she was 6 months pregnant at the time of the murder,

    so maybe a Serbian hitman.....

    Edit;

    She was not pregnant at the time of the murder,

    daughter was 3 months old when she married Daniel in June 1998.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Several sources have claimed that Sophie was pregnant at the time of her murder though...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I don't think this was the case. The pathologist would have found that out and I don't think that the pathologist lied in this matter.

    Also, if Sophie was sleeping with various other men, she would have used contraception. And if she wasn't happy with Daniel, she certainly wasn't wanting a child with him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    A Paris-based journalist claimed Daniel Toscan du Plantier revealed to him that Sophie was pregnant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Polly701



    I assume she wasn't pregnant at the time of death.. Wouldn't this have been made public? The family wouldn't have lost just Sophie but also the hope of the unborn child?

    Perhaps though the husband believed her to be pregnant? Sophie may have been genuinely mistaken or misleading him for her own reasons. And it was the straw that broke the camel's back for him?

    He certainly didn't come across afterwards as a man who had just lost his wife who was about to become the mother of his child (as he believed).

    The husband was well connected.. Perhaps he looked into getting a 'hitman'.. I know this seems unlikely given the way she was killed and where - but perhaps he hired 'the wrong person'.. Someone who hadn't done this before but was desperate for money or to pay off some sort of debt?! I don't know how these things work but I know things can always go wrong in any 'job'. Perhaps the reason it seems to have happened more in the early morning as opposed to the middle of the night is the length of time it took to find the house. Perhaps the killer planned on making a noise outside to lure her out and strangle her.. but she put up such a fight and run that he had to resort to whatever was to hand?

    I would like to have seen much more of a focus on the husband rather than dissecting Bailey.

    And I'd love the family of Sophie to have closure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think Daniel may have said this convince all that they were happy couple and going to have a baby ( when clearly they were anything but a happy normal couple). Conveniently he said this years after the murder. The autopsy would have revealed this information Im sure -It would have been relavent if she was pregnant and this would have been made public. I think Daniel is lying on the pregnancy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Less than a year after the murder...

    “She was in the early stages of pregnancy and they had talked about it in their last ever phone call,” the British-born writer said.

    Asking not to be identified, he said the disclosure came on a film set in Le Mans in late 1997. “I remember it well, it was a buffet lunch on the set and Daniel approached.

    though the details of the autopsy are not public, not even family had access to the autopsy report.

    An autopsy, carried out by former state pathologist Dr John Harbison after Sophie’s Christmastime murder in 1996, was not divulged to her family despite repeated requests by her late husband.

    As no one has been charged with the killing, the autopsy report is not likely to be made public while the garda file remains open.

    Mr Toscan du Plantier died last year (2003) without establishing proof of Sophie’s condition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I didn't know that.

    Neither Sheridan nor the Netflix documentation mentioned that, even though the pathologist was interviewed.

    Is it known or has it ever been determined who the father is?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Why didnt Daniel and the family say she was pregnant when the murder happened - why didnt they make that public - surely it would have been mentioned at her funeral It doesnt make sense to have kept that quiet. Daniel just mentioned it to a journalist in 1997 - surely he would have mentioned this to the gardai. If she was pregnant the pathologist would have confirmed this - I dont see how keeping this quiet would have benefited the investigation. By all accounts Sophie and Daniels marriage was over - why would she have wanted a baby with him

    Im not sure whether there were home pregnancy test kits available in 1996. If there wasnt Sophies doctor would have had to confirm the pregnancy. I wonder was her medical records checked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    This would make it a double murder case, then.

    It's also quite possible that the child wasn't Daniel's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Im not sure whether there were home pregnancy test kits available in 1996. If there wasnt Sophies doctor would have had to confirm the pregnancy. I wonder was her medical records checked.

    Home pregnancy tests were available from the '70s. One's similar to today's tests were available in the '90s.

    https://www.aacc.org/cln/cln-industry-insights/2020/pregnancy-testing-through-the-ages



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Regarding the "husband hit order" scenario --

    Obviously it would need to be synchronised with an Irish visit so what might be the drill ???

    Send over a "Jackal" type agent or use some form of international ex-millitary network,? otherwise it's "hire-a-goon" territory.

    If the husband was inclined towards that goal, I suspect it would be more logical to carry out such an operation in France.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    We may never find out the identity of the murderer(s) in this case, I think it's reasonable to speculate there was a cover up but at a high level where most of the investigating Guards only had the word of a superior that there was "information" on the killer.

    Essentially we've got him, for the vast majority of people the case is closed. When the DPP didn't bring a charge it hardly mattered as Bailey had been judged guilty by media. The case would have been torn apart in court anyway. Imagine the derision there would have been if Detective Dwyer had displayed his sketch of scratches or how each of the witnesses would have stumbled over possible motives for "volunteering" evidence?

    Ian Bailey's high court case was neatly handled by the state, we were allowed hear all the shenanigans of the investigation and then the jury was asked two questions; 1) Is Marie Farrell a liar? 2) Is Marie Farrell a liar? We can all make up our own minds after that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    If it was a "husband hit order" then I don't think it would have been somebody from Ireland. I'd say, it would have been somebody from France who travelled to Ireland, with clear instructions on where the house was and how to find it, maybe one connecting flight somewhere to erase traces regarding travel. However police wasn't able or totally incompetent to trace the travel of a possible killer, - it would also have been a difficult job.

    One thing would be certain: Daniel Toscan du Plantier would most likely have had the strongest financial motive for the murder of his wife.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    It's frankly deplorable but sketches are still sworn into evidence in trials around the country today.

    Post edited by OwlsZat on


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    Jumping back a couple of pages. Regarding Shirley Lyons going out after the murder to do her shopping etc. On the day of discovering the body wasn't Leo Bolger allowed through the crimescene to drop some groceries up to the Lyons house for the very reason that she couldn't or wouldndn't have to?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭nc6000


    That's a good point, I presume neither Shirley or Alfie could drive anywhere as they would have to drive through the crime scene to get their car out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭dmc17


    Did she not already drive the car out past the scene?



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    Either the crimescene was contaminated (or botched forensics) or the this killing was planned. So many parts of this case disturb and confuse me at the same time. It's never sat right with me that it was purely coincidence (as mentioned in Ralph Riegels book of the same title) that her book of poetry was on the table and open on the poem below. Was this a clue from the killer or even Sophie herself?;

    “A Dream of Death” by William Butler Yeats

    I DREAMED that one had died in a strange place

    Near no accustomed hand,

    And they had nailed the boards above her face,

    The peasants of that land,

    Wondering to lay her in that solitude,

    And raised above her mound

    A cross they had made out of two bits of wood,

    And planted cypress round;

    And left her to the indifferent stars above

    Until I carved these words:

    She was more beautiful than thy first love,

    But now lies under boards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    You would think the car was part of the initial crime scene as initially they thought it was a hit and run due to the injuries to Mdme Plantier and her body was in the layby.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was NOT the book on the table, this was uncovered recently on reddit when a couple of posters had higher quality photos of the book and it was clear it wasn't poetry, more like a novel from the layout of the words. It's another urban myth thats found its way into the case and doesn't help anything.

    Apparently a poetry book was on her bed, but closed which is perhaps where it originated from



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    Actually quite spooky when you read up on some of the interpretations of this poem;


    After reading the first line of the poem, the reader is aware that the narrator is about to recount a dream. By using the word “strange” to specify how the death took place in a “strange place,” Yeats stresses the importance of home from the beginning. If he were comfortable with the idea of a foreign land, the word strange would not be utilized. Yeats initially shields the importance of the person who has died, but as the poem progress, the reader becomes aware that the narrator is dreaming about someone who he loves dearly.

    Yeats’s lyrical dreamscape expresses one of his consciousness’s deepest anxieties. While there is no definitive meter, there is certainly a clear rhythm.

    Using a dark and unsettling tone in the third and fourth lines, Yeats paints a picture of how the “peasants” of the foreign land “nailed the boards above her face.” Yeats emphasizes how she has died a lonely death away from home as the people of this land who do not know anything about her are the ones that bury her.


    “A cross they had made out of two bits of wood” presents the idea that her grave is neither made nor tended by a loved one. She was found by strangers who knew nothing about her and exerted minimal effort in burying her. His references to the cross and to a planted cypress tree add a religious and spiritual component. Often placed in cemeteries because they look sad, the cypress tree further emphasizes the solemn tone of the poem.

    The last two lines emphasize how beauty fades. This is illuminated by the shift from “she was” to “but now.” Buried in the dirt, her beauty is now unseen by the world. The narrator’s use of the word “lies” has a double meaning when he says that his love “lies under boards.” Not only does she physically lie in a coffin, but her beauty is now a lie as she will slowly decay and will no longer be beautiful.

    At the end, the narrator turns the attention to the reader by using the word “thy.” The reader becomes even more emotionally attached to the poem by reflecting on his own first love. By traveling to her grave and carving an inscription, the narrator makes sure the world knows she is loved for eternity.

    Yeats wrote this poem about the woman he loved, Maud Gonne. At the time this poem was written, she was traveling to France. Yeats was afraid she would die on her trip as she was predisposed to illness. The historic context shows how the poem was personal to Yeats; however, the themes are important with or without historic context.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    Although I'm weary of using Reddit as a source - thanks for clearing that up as that does seem more believable. Obviously the author was conjuring up something to add to the mystique. As they say, don't believe what you read.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh sure, it's not a reliable source, but the picture was very clear.

    Definitely not poetry!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If the husband was inclined towards that goal, I suspect it would be more logical to carry out such an operation in France.

    I don't agree. Far away on the west coast of Cork, with no Gendarmerie to investigate, no French detectives asking questions, a language barrier, inclement weather.

    I don't know if Daniel was even formally questioned about the murder of his wife. Isn't that absolutely incredible?

    Also, people forget that the island of Ireland was well stocked with brutal killers in the 1990's, on both sides of the border. Why bring apples to the orchard?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Yah it is incredible like many aspects. Whats even more galling is that they refused to let any of our gards carry out any sort of investigation in France but came here to carry out their own and expected us to hand Bailey over just like that then. The bared face cheek of them.

    Regarding the hitman theory, I suppose it's somewhat believable that he could have made it look like a crime of passion but I don't know, he must have been one heck of a hitman to not a leave a trace of himself whatsoever or any credible witness sighting of him. Zilch. I think if it was a hitman also, he would have either killed her inside the house or out and about somewhere like where she saw the white lady. It was an incredibly risky to kill her outside like that especially when she lived so close to her neighbours.

    So who are the main suspects:

    1) Senior Gard in the locality

    2) Hitman either from France or Ireland ordered by her husband

    3) Alfie Lyons

    4) Bruno Carbonnair

    5) Karl Heinz Wolney

    6) Leo Bolger or one of the goons he hung around with

    7) Un-named odd Frenchman in the locality who left not long after

    8) Man who was in the car with Marie Farrell that night (may be point 1 also)

    9) Un-known as of yet local from the community who fancied his chances

    10) Ian Bailey



This discussion has been closed.
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