Murder at the Cottage | Sky

chooseusername · 22-09-2021 8:33pm

" Gsoc sent the book to an experienced forensic scientist in Northern Ireland. He found that the pages had been cut from the book, probably using scissors"

Would they really need "an experienced forensic scientist in Northern Ireland"

pages.jpg

saabsaab · 22-09-2021 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925558#Comment_117925558

Where ever you can put it?

jimwallace197 · 22-09-2021 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925922#Comment_117925922

Couldnt have said it better myself, right on the button, how many times have we seen similar carry on in the HSE as to what was going on with the gards in this case.

Complete lack of accountability in the public sector leads us to these situations. Those gards that destroyed evidence & manufactured false statements should be looking at prison time, only way they'll learn. Absolute scumbags

chooseusername · 22-09-2021 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925840#Comment_117925840

If you try to cut the pages out close to the binding, you will be left with the jagged edges like in the above image.

odyssey06 · 22-09-2021 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926044#Comment_117926044

And Maurice McCabe, only he recorded that conversation the whole weight of the corrupt bureaucracy would have crushed him. We see that corrupt bureacracy on display here that cares more about protecting itself than the trivialty of the murder of an innocent and a minor detail such as the guilt or innocence of Ian Bailey.

Aye, there was obviously a cover up here, and so much low level malpractice that was par for the course (as per the Bandon tapes where we see the contempt displayed for an honest Guard to change his statements), the only real question is what was being covered up.

Did the DPP see the missing pages? Did that inform the attitude they took to the prosecution I wonder.

tibruit · 22-09-2021 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924715#Comment_117924715

I didn`t say the majority of posters. I said "a few individuals" and you are certainly one of them. You regularly resort to personal insults. You have refused to engage with me and another here when confronted by facts that expose your fallacies. Classic conspiracy theorist behavior.

The self acknowledged main suspect is the main suspect for a number of reasons.

1..He is a violent man who has assaulted his partner at least three times. We get a sense of the workings of his mind from his diary entries that are on the public record....1993...."I have on a number of occasions struck and abused my lover". In May 1996, two weeks after another assault on Jules..."I actually tried to kill her....I am an animal on two feet".

2..On the night of the murder, he had in mind to go to Alfies. Jules is also on the record as saying he had a premonition, a sense that something was happening or about to happen.

3..He lied about his whereabouts later that night. After initially saying he was in bed all night, it turns out he got up, probably before 2 AM and wasn`t seen again until after 9 AM. He even acknowledges that he left the house.

4..He had scratches on his hands and a cut on his forehead in the days following the murder.

5..The statements of two witnesses indicate that he and Jules must have known before noon on the 23rd that a French woman had been murdered locally. Yet he claims he wasn`t told about it until 1-40 pm. Jules`s whereabouts on the same morning is contradicted by three witnesses, one of them is her own daughter.

6..He wrote articles that showed he knew details about the victims injuries and said that there was no sexual assault before the autopsy findings were made public.

7..He denied he ever met Sophie. This is contradicted by two French and two Irish witnesses.

8..He had a bonfire where he burned laced footwear and clothes in the days after the murder. He denies this but yet again a witness contradicts him and says she saw the fire on the 26th. He also bought bleach after the murder.

9..He told a number of people he did it. Three of the confessions came before he was even arrested.

The keystone cops in west Cork had an open goal and they shot and missed, primarily because of their own ineptitude and also because of early over confidence. I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist as a rule. As far as I`m concerned, the best conspiracy is a conspiracy of one. I don`t believe for a minute that the Gardaí in west Cork had the wherewithall to immediately know that this murder was committed by one of their own, destroy and hide all the evidence and then set up a patsy to take the hit. Most importantly, there is absolutely no evidence for it either.

jimwallace197 · 22-09-2021 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926081#Comment_117926081

I believe the DPP back then were more than a little aware of the carry on of so called gards investigating crimes. Lazy eejits often quick to point the finger at the most obvious suspects without properly investigating the case. This case exposed them.

The current one, Claire Loftus, is the opposite of that, and blatantly another political appointment by Fine Gael, no doubt Bailey would be going forward for trial if she was in charge back then. She doesnt have a scooby & attained the position of DPP mainly because of her length of service in the office of the DPP rather than any other reasons.

jimwallace197 · 22-09-2021 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926119#Comment_117926119

You sound like a broken record and when exposed you try to play the victim. I'm not even going to go over you're ridiculous points because they have all been answered previously many times in this thread but like another poster on here, you keep banging the same drum which suits your own narrative that Bailey did it.

tibruit · 22-09-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926148#Comment_117926148

I`m banging the only drum. The name calling is water of a ducks back to me. The only victim here is you. You were obviously fu***d over by a guard at some point. You should leave it behind you and move on. Life is too short.

odyssey06 · 22-09-2021 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926119#Comment_117926119

So much of this framing was looked at and thoroughly discredited in the DPP report including the scratches, so called foreknowledge of the murder, the 'non confessions'.

Premonition? The DPP report dealt with this nonsense again. There was a full moon, there seemed to be a lot of nocturnal activity from foxes, hounds etc creating an 'eerie' feeling. Absolutely zero suggestion Bailey himself had any hand to play in whatever 'something bad' should it occur. To list this as an association with guilt shows how credulous and biased you are.

Bailey met Sophie? Right? The two French witnesses who think they remebered it years later? Or the Bolger guy who remebered with crystal clarity Person A being introduced to Person B by Person C while he tagged along. If you believe that you'll believe anything.

Maybe Bailey did very briefly get introduced to Sophie by Alfie while gardening. There's ZERO evidence he was ever alone with Sophie or knew her to have a private conversation with her. How many other people were similarly introduced to Sophie? And do you think a third party in the Bolger role would have remembered that? Members of the jury, think back 6 months, can you remember when one of your friends introduced two acquaintances to each other?

Yes, his recollection of the night changed. Can you recall 100% your whereabouts of every night of your life, including nights when you were drunk?

Yes, he's a violent man, how many other people in West Cork have similar convictions for domestic abuse? Does that make them murderers. Nope.

An animal doesn't carry out a frenzied brutal assault and leave no trace.

How many other people in West Cork bought bleach? Burned rubbish?

Come on, answer up. If it's such a damning action it must have only been Ian Bailey right?

Let's go back to ZERO forensics evidence tying him to the scene, ZERO witnesses putting him at the scene, ZERO motive.

mamboozle · 22-09-2021 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926119#Comment_117926119

Of course all your points have been discredited already, but now that you lay them all out so persuasively I can't work out why the DPP didn't think it's in the bag.

One of the difficulties you have is that you are making Jules an accessory to murder. It follows that even though this is a cunning pair, they didn't have the sense to tell the guards that they were both in bed all night period. On the morning of the murder Jules didn't say you better hide those scratches, it might be a good idea to lie low, she said let's go out quickly and tell a few people about the murder. Ian said great idea I'm going to tell people I did it and since I have all this first hand information I'm going to start writing things that any old hack couldn't work out but really really precise details about what happened. Stands to reason.

odyssey06 · 22-09-2021 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926388#Comment_117926388

And Ian, make sure everybody sees those scratches and I mean everybody. Just because it's December, don't wear gloves, don't wear a long sleeved shirt. Don't stay in bed for the next few days with flu.

crackcrack30 · 22-09-2021 10:25pm

Back to the pieces of the jigsaw because I believe that they are all there .....

It was suggested that a similar hire car and lady was witnessed getting petrol with a male in the passenger seat.. was this the day she arrived?

Would a hire car not be full of petrol? How long after flight arrival was this? Did she go on a detour .. Was the car mileage noted by the hire company?

Just trying to get to the bottom of this particular barrel... Which may, if ruled out, isolate further the killer(s) to the penincilla...

saabsaab · 22-09-2021 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926726#Comment_117926726

Hire cars don't always come with a full tank. You can leave it back with less fuel and be charged if it was full when you got it or leave it back full and not be charged.

tinytobe · 22-09-2021 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926997#Comment_117926997

I'd say it would be unusual, if the tank wasn't full, but it's not impossible. However in all the cars I've rented, the gas tank was always full. It's very very rare that it isn't full when you're renting the car. In the end, that's another thing the police should have followed up on. Retracing Sophie's last steps. When did the flight arrive? How soon did she arrive at her house? Where else did she drive? Also, what was the tank like on the day the murder was discovered? Questions any competent police officer investigating would have asked.

nc6000 · 23-09-2021 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926997#Comment_117926997

I've never had a hire car that didn't come with a full tank.

23-09-2021 11:29am

I think amid all the scenarios posited here, one of them fits. (not Ian Bailey)

The guard’s involvement, Alfie/drugs, the man in the passenger seat, the husband or his new lover, the violent ex boyfriend Bruno Carbonnet.

But just to add in another scenario... could it have been a case of mistaken identity? Was the target Shirley/Alfie? The killer got the wrong house. And the blood stain is the door is from when he went up to the house to look for Alfie.

alfie himself seems very mysterious with his Russian and Italian and stint in America. There’s barely anything to be found as regards his death.

23-09-2021 11:32am

I think also there’s the question of the flustered Frenchman who turned up in the travel agents in Galway, which may or may not tie in with the sighting of a man in Sophie’s car.

(the travel agent had previously been used by Sophie, how weird is that?)

He said he needed the number of a B&B in west Cork as he had left without paying. But this may have just been a way of fishing for any news that might be coming out of west Cork at that moment.

crackcrack30 · 23-09-2021 11:52am

Sophie's passenger seat was pushed back and a man was spotted in a similar hire car with a lady that resembled french sophie.. within the correct timeframe.

This does not mean he killed her.... .but I'd give this a 70% of being a true event....?? unless discounted with real evidence.

23-09-2021 12:21pm

She didn’t just resemble Sophie, the petrol station attendant was 100% sure she was Sophie.

The guards discounted this sighting as she was seen in Ballydehob at the same time buying firewood which is nonsensical because it’s a straight line from Skibb to Ballydehob, you could be there in under 15 minutes.

So you have a woman sighted in her car just outside Ballydehob who the person is 100% sure was Sophie. The guards say no. But then who was THAT mystery woman who looked exactly like Sophie, who just happened to turn up between Sophie’s landing at the airport and her appearance at Ballydehob, on the route she would have taken, in the timeframe it would have taken her to complete that route, in the same car that Sophie rented? What are the chances.

And apparently Sophie was alone in Ballydehob but do we know that for sure? How can we take anything at face value when everything has been so manipulated, and credence given to witness sightings that ‘fit’ and others dismissed because of tiny details that the witness might have got wrong (she was in Ballydehob ‘at the same time’, some bullshit about hubcaps, etc)

23-09-2021 12:31pm

In starting to get angry again because it’s all there, the case was solvable, if anyone had been bothered to solve it.

The sighting at Skibbereen had to have been Sophie. Who else could it have been?

So who was the man?

someone she knew? A lover?

Someone she met at the airport, who availed of a lift from her?

A hitchhiker, or someone whose car broke down, who paid for the petrol by way of thanks?

I feel very fired up. It was all there. So many avenues to be explored. This wasn’t a case of someone leaving no trace and vanishing into the night. They left many traces. They were seen. Why did the guards dismiss this sighting?? Amid their many other mistakes (let’s call them mistakes for now, to be charitable) how did they get away with dismissing this sighting?

drumm23 · 23-09-2021 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928501#Comment_117928501

How did they get away with dismissing it?

Probably because Bailey has a rock-solid alibi for the man not being him; if there was even a smell of it being Bailey then the Gards would suddenly have Marie Farrell just happening to fill up at the same petrol station at the same time

OwlsZat · 23-09-2021 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927567#Comment_117927567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926119#Comment_117926119

I did in Gran Canaria. Picked it up from an airport multistory. Given directions for the petrol station and told to fill it up. Leave it back as you got it. Think it's a way to make an extra few quid as most won't run it near empty. No idea what it was like back in the day.

drumm23 · 23-09-2021 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928820#Comment_117928820

yes, I can't remember what it was like back then - but if she was driving back to Cork for her flight then she was probably going to have to fill up at some point

23-09-2021 2:11pm

Might be of help if someone writes up a simple timeline of her arrival and know movements. Haven't time to do it today but I got this from an old Irish indo article if anyone wants to use it to make a better one. The most of interest is the time her plane arrived in Cork on the 20th to the time of her death on the 23rd.

September 1992: Ms Toscan du Plantier views a house at Toormore, Schull, in west Cork, and buys the property months later.

1993-1996: Ms Toscan du Plantier enjoys regular weekend breaks and annual summer holidays in Toormore, often bringing her family with her for her Irish vacation.

December 20, 1996: Ms Toscan du Plantier flies into Cork Airport for a brief pre-Christmas break alone at Toormore. She intends to fly back to Paris on December 23 for a holiday in West Africa with her husband, film executive Daniel du Plantier.

December 23, 1996: Ms Toscan du Plantier's beaten body is discovered at the foot of the laneway leading from her Toormore home. She had apparently tried to flee from an assailant at her home but was caught.

saabsaab · 23-09-2021 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927567#Comment_117927567

Fair enough it has been a good few years since I hired a car here but I recall it not having a full tank, 3/4 or so.

23-09-2021 2:36pm

A very quick draft full of blanks

Dec 20:

Arrival Cork Airport. (Time?)

Hired car (what company)

Drove to West Cork (how long would this take)

Sighting at petrol station with passenger (Time)

Sighting at shop buying wood. No passenger (Time)

Dec 21

Spar sighting?

Dec 22

Walk. The white lady

The Ungerers

Phone call to husband

Dec 23

Death

Body found

crackcrack30 · 23-09-2021 2:46pm

A list of confirmed sightings.

a list of confirmed interactions/conversations.

a list of possible sightings (key for me.. as one gets no scrutinity..)

a list of possible interactions/conversations.

A list of all persons that Sophie would 90% come in contact with on a normal visit (very private person I believe)

A timestamp if possible for all of the above..... Thanks.

Curious_Case · 23-09-2021 2:49pm

It simply isn't known if this murder was motivated by something to do with a relationship, lust, finance, an attempt to silence, a grudge, a robbery gone wrong, mistaken identity, etc.

Perhaps then, three avenues should be pursued simultaneously - (A) local perpetrator (permanent resident), (B) someone from outside the local area (who wouldn't have required temporary accommodation) or (C) someone from further outside the area who would have required temporary accommodation.

A new door to door enquiry might shake loose more information, especially if perpetrator was local.

An analysis of card purchases in the wider area for a few days prior and a few days after the murder may yield a workable database of information - can the banks & card companies oblige?

Spending on travel or car hire, accommodation & food would be of particular interest.

Who sat beside Sophie on her flight?

Does anyone have photographs that may have inadvertently captured Sophie?

Is anyone aware of a male family member that may have thought he was embarking on a new relationship with an artistic and/or French woman?

Any unusual encounters?

What about tents, camper-vans or caravans that weren't in obvious use by a family?

dublin49 · 23-09-2021 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926119#Comment_117926119

Excellent summation of why some people on this forum like me feel on balance he is most likely the murderer.As I said previously when you find yourself explaining away 15 or 20 different aspects of Bailey's involvement surely it gives pause for consideration about his innocence,the statements on here that suggest he has no case to answer at all are blinkered in the extreme.Just because police corruption exists in this country does not mean Bailey is definitely innocent.

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Comments