Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

General British politics discussion thread

Options
19293959798487

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Liz truss as foreign secretary? I honestly didn't think Boris would be so irresponsible as to appoint some more ignorant, stupid, entitled and prone to foot in mouth syndrome than dominc Raab but he managed it.

    At least it's gonna be fun to watch the omnishambles of Liz truss trying to dig the UK out of the soft power crater they have dug themselves into.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    But think how much more cheese qoutas she can get now!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Its obvious where the UK sees its future as the Anglosphere goes from strength to strength,with France set to loose out according to this link.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-announce-alliance-with-britain-australia-tech-cyber-defense-politico-2021-09-15/



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    I'd suggest you read up on the submarine issues in Australia; trust me when I say it got nothing to do with what you think it does and it's been known as a white elephant project for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Particularly opportune to time the much trumpeted reshuffle to coincide with a vigorous debate and opposition motion in the commons on the decision to end the universal credit uplift, but nothing less than you'd expect from this government. A decision so unpopular that Johnson could only mandate his troops to abstain rather than defeat the motion. Speculation we'll soon see another u turn, but how humiliating would that be? Hasn't stopped them before, I guess.

    Anyway, given the choice between that and a reshuffle, the pol corrs were all predictably over the latter. Kuennsberg and Peston giddy with the intrigue of it since the morning, like birthday and xmas day all rolled into one for them. God only knows what distraction the tories will have lined up for the end of the month when the uplift formally expires!



  • Advertisement
  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I actually laughed out loud earlier when I read that the completely empty shirt that is Liz Truss is now foreign secretary.

    Like Danny Healy-Rae getting Coveney's job. British cheese is never going to have it so good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,908 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Anglosphere goes strength to strength. Yes the UK sees it's future in some parallel universe. But the Anglosphere goes strength to strength. I'm interested in both your interpretation of the Anglosphere and what strength to strength mean in actual reality. ( You know, human terms)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    I'm interested as to why the UK advancing it's interests along with its English speaking allies(Anglosphere)puts the UK in'some parallel universe'?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Please don't dump links here. This is a discussion forum, not a repository for snappy comments and links.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's not clear to me why the UK is involved in this deal. Australia lacks any nuclear industry of its own and needs technology transfer in order to acquire and operate nuclear-powered submarines, but presumably they could get all the technology they need from the US alone. And Australia already has a militarly alliance with the US, which it doesn't with the UK.

    A wild guess is that Australia has decided not to design a new submarine from scratch - for the reasons already hinted at by nody I don't think there is time for that; they need something off-the-peg - and they may have chosen a design already in service with the UK, probably the Astute class.

    If so, what's in this for the UK is, basically, money. The Astute class project has massively overrun and the cost per vessel (of seven intended) has ballooned. If the design can be sold on to Australia some of the development costs can be recouped and the cost per vessel will fall dramatically.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The submarines are just the headline grabber, this is a wide ranging agreement that covers many areas.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The French are upset because they had a €31Bn deal to build 12 for subs for down under. The weird bit is that the French design is a diesel-electric version of their nuclear powered Barracuda class attack subs.

    Wouldn't be surprised if the UK mention how green the new subs not using fossil fuel will be, after watering down the climate part of the recent UK-Australia trade deal.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The advantages of a nuclear powered submarine are pretty apparent.

    quieter, more powerful, able to spend up to 77 days at sea, as opposed to 11.

    I doubt anyone needed to spell out the advantages, least of all the green credentials.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody



    And yet a diesel power submarine "sunk" the American navy's carrier which a nuclear sub never would have been able to achieve. Lets be honest here; if you want to project power against China wtf would you want a nuclear sub as Australia beyond e-peen? Australia has zero nuclear missiles; they will never be able to play an active role against them in a war (12 subs max ) and they have zero skill in handling the nuclear engine (which means outsourcing the support). They have no way of sourcing future nuclear subs either which means they are spending a lot of money to pretend they are going to be important when in reality they are going to be as useful as a fifth wheel if something seriously kicks off in the region. As a country they could have done much better by simply spending the money to turn their economy away from depending on China and that would be more effective than any submarine fleet they would get however...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i guess the problem arises when China decides your economy and natural resources are too important and as much as you try to turn your economy away from them, they aren’t going to give you a choice

    thats a different discussion though



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    11 days ? Endurance of the existing Collins class sub is 70 days. The Aussies got big subs because of the distance. ( the Barracudas also list 70 days (of food) endurance )

    Diesel Electric can be quieter than nuclear because they can turn everything off. With a nuclear sub the cooling pumps MUST run when needed. These aren't Boomers that sit on the bottom or patrol at slow speeds.

    (the words you use sound like you've read the BBC report and accepted it a face value - though that may be an MoD or Tory report originally)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You seem to think that the Australian government and military were somehow duped in to acquiring nuclear powered submarines by some devious Tory plot and should have continued with the existing plan for French diesel electric subs (which themselves are an adaptation of the French nuclear powered Barracuda class, its almost as if the French also think nuclear is a superior technology).

    If it is what they believe they need to meet present and future operational requirements, then good for them. They have a massive area to patrol, a regional neighbour who is constantly pushing its territorial boundaries and need to spec something that will still be relevant in thirty years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I think the main problem is that, with the chopping and changing, the subs that will still be relevant in 30 years time won't be commissioned until 20 years time!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dithering, spec changes and budget over runs. The story of military procurement the world over.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think that would be Government procurement the world over.

    Like the camel being a horse designed by a committee, any Gov committee specifying a project gets lots of 'While you are at it, then you should ..... ' which leads to mission creep and cost multiplying. I knew a guy who's job was to tender for major Gov contracts. He usually went in below cost knowing the subsequent 'adjustments' and 'improvements' requested would put the project well into profit.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    In most countries public procurement law requires the government to accept the lowest tender, unless there is a strong and objectively demonstrable reason for accepting a higher one. Knowing this, all tenderers put in the lowest possible tender - they have no chance of getting the gig otherwise. In order to keep the headline price down, they will make - and state up front - a range of extremely optimistic assumptions about future events (raw materials costs won't rise over the course of the project, labour costs won't rise at more than x% per year, the sun will shine ever day . . .). Individually, each of the assumptions is optimistic but not absurd; collectively, there is no chance whatsoever that they will all be born out. So the cost will always be greater than the tender cost - always. This then appears in newspaper headlines as a "blowout" but, in fact, it was always going to happen.

    You can't blame the tenderers for this - the rules require it. If they don't do this, they don't get the gig.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,585 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So Johnson is still shaking hands with everyone like he claimed 18 months ago?

    Brazil's health minister Marcelo Queiroga has apparently tested positive for COVID-19 while in New York for a UN meeting. He is seen shaking hands with Johnson, who was not wearing a face covering, as well as patting Johnson on the arm.

    According to The Guardian, Mr Queiroga sat near to the PM and Foreign Secretary Liz Truss during their meeting with Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro on Monday.

    Johnson then met President Biden on Tuesday.






  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭fiveleavesleft


    Starmer publishes a dry 14,000 word essay on his "vision."

    Johnson "tells Macron to "donnez-moi un break" and get over his anger.

    Both pretty stupid but it's obvious Boris wins again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Boris wins domestically; his country loses internationally.

    That's a trade-off Boris will always make without a second thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Starmer and his 14k words.


    Labour need to flesh out that vision very quickly, people view them as rudderless and bereft of ideas.


    The essay certainly hints at a vision that would appeal to the electorate.


    Labours key problem remains that the electorate don't trust them to not go off on mad tangents or that electing them to power won't mean crazy trot types worming their madcap visions in places.


    He certainly has removed a lot of the worst activists but it is only a start. Would a decade even flush them out of the system?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Four decades of thatcherite monetarism and neoliberalism, inequality at record levels, billionaires getting wealthier and still paying pitiful taxes, the nhs and social care in crisis, endemic cronyism and petty corruption in government, in work poverty rife and the fall out from brexit still barely begun and it's those old "crazy trots" we need to be worried about. You have to laugh. Sometimes feels like we never left the 1980s.

    The important thing from Starmers perspective is not just tbo attack the tories, but to firmly establish with those billionaires, and their willing servants in the right wing dominated press, that he will be no threat to them or their power. That nothing will fundamentally change under him. And he will deal with those pesky "trots", even if it means driving a coach and horses through his own party's democratic processes and reneging on nearly every pledge he made to become leader. But that's good, isn't it? Shows just how ruthless and ambitious he is to gain power. Just like Johnson, really.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Boris gives Macron the dose of reality ne needs.

    Only the French have lost out here, both financially and reputationally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You can rely on Johnson to do his level best to make sure that France will have to share these honours with the UK.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not at all. Outside of the UK, France and oddly, Ireland, Johnson's comments won't be noticed at all.

    A UN security council member withdrawing its ambassador from the US over a failed arms deal, now that gets international coverage and makes France look petty.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    So how have France lost out "reputationally" if no one is going to notice ?



Advertisement