What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Right you are Cordell! I am extremely illiberal towards certain opinions. As are you, I am sure.

I have no solutions for you Iker unfortunately as I've said before. How would you ensure that Ireland avoids these issues? Or do you just assume they wont emerge as Ireland becomes a more multi-cultural country? If you do assume that, why ?

I think some issues will emerge, of course. But Muslims have been living and raising their families here for some time with nary a drama.

I get that some people think that if their numbers increase, they will start demanding change according to their beliefs. OK, that may happen (or not) to some extent; but that doesn't mean they will get whatever it is they are asking for. Also, it doesn't mean we are going to disappear neither now nor in 100 years like some think, or become convert, or that Ireland is going to lose its Constitution and laws, history, values, traditions or even Christianity. It means, we are becoming a bigger country and now we have some people different to us around the place. It means we are in the world.

It doesn't mean we have to have uncontrolled immigration. As I mentioned before, Europe doesn't believe in that either and there are plans on the table to agree on a common policy. Immigration wasn't a problem (for non-racists at least) until millions of people started fleeing Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, etc... sadly, they've become a pawn for states peripheral to the EU (like Belarus and Turkey), to put pressure on the Union.

We carry no monkeys as a country (save the Brits, arguably). That is a major factor often overlooked. No one hates us. I don't see the gain in starting to polarise our own society for no reason. France is France. Ireland is Ireland. Different past, different mentality, different everything.

How do we avoid these issues? Well for one, stop polarising people against Muslims (and by reaction them against us) and other minorities. Trust our laws and Constitution to protect our society against unduly radical societal changes (that's what they are for). Be genuine, respectful, and polite is all and will be returned to you. You don't have to invite them to your gaff or throw flowers, no one is saying that.

And stop staring ffs!! 😂

Iker, the only thing I can say to you at this stage is, if you get the chance, go and live in any of the "Stans" or other Islamic Countrys where Sharia is King. Live there for awhile ( not as a holiday destination, on the tourist trail, thats not experiencing Islam) 3 mths minimum, but longer is better, Then, come back here and see if after having some real experience of Islamic culture, you will have the same opinion. Because there is a helluva big difference between hearing about a cuture, and actually living it. And I'd give the same advice to any other poster on here.

First thing Jack, lets get one thing straight,,,,I'm not making any claims about Muslims planning on taking over the world. That comes directly from Muslims themselves via the Quran, and Mohammad. Its not a statement, its an order to convert the unbelievers to Islam. Something they have been doing since the 6th century.

Your knowledge of Islam is far from complete Jack. All Muslims are well educated, with Islam being the first priority, but other subjects too, Maths, Science, Medicine etc. Pretty much the same curriculum as here in the west. Even in the most remote rural inhospital areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, basic minimum education standard will be religion, in this case Islam.Thats an obligation. From 4 or 5 years of age and onwards, they will spend several hours each studying the Quran, until they can recite perfectly the passages word perfect. The older they get, the more passages they can recite. I well remember an Afghan friend of mine, celebrating with great pride, his sons accomplishment in reciting passages of the Quran. Apparently, he could recite passages verbatim that older boys had yet to master.

In their view, only Islam offers the perfect society, so a world converted to Islam, will be the perfect society. And thats their aim. Where they actually are on that plan realistically is anyones guess, its still a work in progress. And despite all the "No, it could never happen here comments," unless there a dramatic reversal of and acceptance of Islam here in Europe, it will happen, its just a matter of time. After all, its been on the go for the last 1'400 years, and in that time frame, whats 50, 100 or even 200 years? Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, while in the west ( especially ) Christian religions are in decline. So on one hand a declining Religion ( Christian ) and on the other a very agressively expanding Religion, ( Islam) Its no contest if things continue as they are. Oh, and it will not be a full frontal military style assault....No, it will be from within, perfectly legal, and it will be too late when the west see what has happened.

You ARE making claims about Muslims taking over the world, just read your own third paragraph where you’re claiming that because Christianity is in decline and Islam is in your words aggressively expanding, but the takeover of the West won’t be a full-frontal military style assault, and it’ll be too late by the time the West sees what has happened. I don’t know how many other ways there are to interpret that narrative you’ve created other than you imagine Muslims are going to take over the world.

Meanwhile, while it’s true that what I know of Islam could be written on the back of a postage stamp, it’s also true to point out that at least I CAN read and write, whereas for example in Afghanistan, adult literacy rates among the population of 32m people is about 43% according to UNESCO.

I don’t have to take your anecdotes as having any value as evidence of anything because I know they’re based entirely upon your own subjective experiences. Even the way you describe the experience of your friend being proud of his son because he could recite passages from the Quran verbatim that older boys had yet to master. I prefer a more objective perspective than just yours or your friends opinions.

It’s objectively misleading to suggest all Muslims are well educated because they’re taught Islamic teachings. That’s either a deliberate lie on your part, or it’s an opinion based upon your lack of experience, which leaves you in a very poor position to criticise my lack of personal experience of education in these countries when I can draw conclusions from a much broader set of data than your anecdotes could ever offer, and even if I were to take your anecdotes as fact, that STILL wouldn’t mean I was any more educated than I wasn’t already. It would simply mean I’ve been educated to believe what you believe, much like your friends child, which of course he’s going to be proud of for his achievements, similar to many parents in the West who are proud that their little Johnny can mimic adult behaviour. The situations about to get a whole lot worse again for girls in any case with the Taliban back in power, because they’ll try to ban girls from receiving an education (apart from being taught through the Talibans own interpretation of Islam I guess).

That’s why it’s easy for you to make such a meaningless statement as “In their view, Islam is the perfect society, so a world converted to Islam is the perfect society”. There are so many ways in which a vague statement like that can be interpreted which is exactly what renders it meaningless. The Taliban’s interpretation of Islam appears to consist of the objective of keeping Muslims ignorant, poorly educated, living in poverty and subservient to the Taliban regime. Can the same honestly be said of all Muslims? It could I guess, and it would be quickly pointed out for the bullshìt that it is, because it would mean ignoring much of that 1400 years of contributions to math, science, literature and arts and so on that have been made by Muslims throughout history.

That whole “Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet”, coming from a Christian research institute really isn’t indicative of a whole lot, other than their own bias where they are trying to portray Islam as a threat to a Western way of life. They’re well aware, as is anyone who is at least literate, that the decline of Christianity in Western society has nothing to do with Islam growing. Christianity too is rising globally, just not as fast as Islam, but neither of them are rising at anything like the rate religious adherence of any description, in absolute terms, is falling. Just to put that in some sort of context in relation to Ireland and the perceived threat of the growth of Islam in Irish society. The fastest growing demographic according to the last census was people who are of no religion; ie no religious affiliation, standing at around 9.8% in 2016. The fastest growing demographics among people who are religious were Orthodox followed by Apostolic and Pentecostal. Islam comes in at a paltry 1.3%. Roman Catholicism still holding steady at somewhere like 75%.

On the basis of those percentages alone as they are in Ireland, I’ll be willing to bet there are far more children can recite passages from the Bible and make their fathers proud, than there are children who can recite passages from the Quran will make their fathers proud. I mean, if one is to take that as an indication of what religion is likely to take over the world, I don’t see any reason to suggest people start clutching to their rosary beads any harder just yet, or pearls, if rosary beads aren’t your thing.

He might well be though, the effect is the same whether this particular hypothetical fcukwit is associated with either ISIS or LDS, or witnesses, or Mormons, whatever. The point being that anyone is able to use whatever interpretation of their religious texts to justify their fcukwittery -

18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own asword.

It would be silly to suggest that all Muslims or all any one group of any particular faith or religious affiliation has any interest in smitey activities. That’s generally the preserve of fcukwits, regardless of whatever individual interpretation of an ideology (religious or otherwise) they use to justify their actions.

Motives don't matter?

Talking about preventing crime. Common motives need to be looked out for to prevent future criminal acts by people who have the same motives.

I would say community engagement is the best way but not that easy in certain communities, molenbeek for example harbored some of the paris terrorist's, same could be said for Lyra Mckees murderers in creggan.

Bubblypop, you are 100% in favour of the Law, fair play to you for that, and for sure we have more than enough of them. And thats fine. But when you read and hear about criminals presenting with 100+ previous convictions, and getting ( yet again) another suspended sentence, it all rings a little hollow. Now dont get me wrong. I'm sure thats not your fault. But it is the situation here in Ireland ( and maybe other countrys too ) In general, Laws work fine in law abiding communities, but outside of those, who gived a damn about the Law?

It’s true, I’ve never lived in any of these countries, but how does that observation counter any of the points I’ve made basing my opinion on objective evidence as opposed to just taking your opinions as fact when it’s clear all your opinions amount to is indeed hearsay, rumour, unsubstantiated nonsense, to support your belief that Islam is taking over the world? I live in Ireland where the total number of Muslims amounts to less than 2% of the population, and they aren’t particularly of the smitey variety.

Those Muslims who are of the smitey variety are a very small number in the countries you have lived in in any case, and still I wouldn’t just take the opinions of any friends, relatives or people who have lived in or are from those countries as fact, because as I explained it would be like taking it as fact that Irish society is a hotbed of homophobia because Panto Bliss said so.

I have no doubt there are a minority of people in Ireland even who believe that’s true too based upon their personal experiences from their own perspective, but their opinions too are based upon anecdotes and hearsay and just don’t rise to the standard of objective evidence that would support their assertion that Ireland is a hotbed of homophobia, any more than your opinions should be taken as evidence that Islam is going to take over the world at some point in the future, way way off into the future, even when not only is there insufficient evidence to support your claim, there’s plenty of evidence which refutes it.