Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

If the Social Democrats were in Sinn Fein's place

1356789

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Based on what experience is that advice? Are people happier and have a better future than 30 years ago should be what you are asking, and the the question to both is no - they arent and dont.


    personally I think SF would be a refreshing option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Precisely. The point of your post was to say that. wasnt really saying much when you look at it that way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I wasn't offering advice. I was commenting on how life has improved for Irish people over 30/40 years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Unfortunately, the World Happiness Report doesn't go back thirty years, but as of now, we are up to 13th in the happiest countries in the world.

    I would concede to you on the better future, as because of the failure of the bigger countries to tackle climate change seriously, the whole world faces an uncertain perilous future. However, if we get that challenge right, the future is a lot brighter. People are living longer healthier lives than 30 years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    thats a pro irish article on irishpost.com - which is a pro Irish, british based media outlet. I'm not even going to bother explaining how useless that is in the debate. Are people happier than they were 30 years ago? Did they think the future was better then or now? The answers arent in that link



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Change the word 'advice' to 'information'. How do you gauge that life has improved?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,945 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    No one of either FF or FG would have gone into coalition with SD as they would see them as less of the enemy than each other.

    Personally I reckon it would be SD/FF in government right now in that case



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    People have more money, better access to food, better access to education, nicer towns and cities to live in, easier access to amenities like parks and beaches, less tolerance of violence and abuse by those in authority, less violence and abuse by those in authority, better medical care, more awareness of health, more acceptance for those who deviate from the 'norm', more equality between sexes, marriage rights, freedom to leave a bad marriage, easier to travel abroad (no longer just for the wealthy), euro accepted in multiple jurisdictions (travellers cheques used to be a pain), easier access to your cash (without long bank queues), public services like passports, driving licence and motor tax no longer require a day off work, more access to knowledge, ability to keep in closer contact with absent friends and family, better clothing, better venues for events like football matches and concerts....


    I can go on and on tbh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,341 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    There isn't actually such a prize as a non-FF/FG government. both parties are largely center-left/right. this is the nature of traditional Irish voting. We don't have large extreme left/right political factions as might be witnessed in the UK/US. Even our vaccination stats demonstrate us as quite sensible people.

    So what is this incentive you suggest? When that vast voting majority are happily ensconced in the probably highest homeownership in Europe, it's not going to be the housing crisis for example.

    When the taxpaying class is being screwed over so much in favour of the populist noise, there is zero chance for a really left-leaning government here.

    Fundamentally, Irish people have historically had it hard and had to work to get anywhere and it's part of our psyche.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Reality check: Ireland is 7th from bottom in the EU 27 for home ownership rates having been much higher a short couple of decades ago.

    The countries below us (Austria / Germany/ Sweden) are countries that don't operate the Anglo-Saxon housing model and will have much stronger protection of tenure for tenancies and much greater stability and security for non-owners. Not owning a property is not an economic live-or-die situation in Germany for instance.

    How ownership stats are collated by the CSO is another unflattering hidden reality papered over by home ownership stats. People living with their parents long into adulthood will be lumped into living in an owner-occupied situation for statistical purposes.

    We are not in good shape on this front whatsover.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,817 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It is interesting you are pro-people owning their own home. Do you know SF want to ignore this and go hell-bent on the public ownership model, like Austria?

    Does.not.compute :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I made no comment either way Mark in that post so don't put words in my mouth. Merely putting some reality around another Gov. cheerleader's misplaced presumptions about home ownership rates relative to Europe.

    What I am saying is that Ireland is clearly part of the Anglo-Saxon model of housing provision, which traditionally relies on high home ownership rates as a means of long term housing security - and it's clear that home ownership rates are dropping like a stone due to unaffordability; with very little long term security for tenancies and an ideological aversion making provisions for the same. There are clear social and economic fallouts from that phenomenon, FG in particular has been living in denial about it for a decade and telling us it wasn't happening and had a great deal of difficulty squaring that circle. Still does in fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,341 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I stand corrected. I'm in the homeownership generation from two decades ago. So my view is skewed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Compared to 30 years ago

    we are living longer, have jobs, don’t have to go to uk/US for work, money to go on holidays, better sports and social facilities, etc etc etc

    The list goes on but I’m sure you will find some negatives between now and 30 years ago. I was around 30 years ago and it was an awful country compared to now, people working to the bone and not even earning enough to go for a holiday in Ireland….college or university for the majority was a dream that would never happen etc….in the area I live we constantly had the concern of bombs going over or people getting beat up by our local lovely PIRA, yeah it was a great time alright

    In the future? Well who know…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So I find a report that shows we are the 13th happiest country in the world, and you somehow think that your belief without any evidence that people were unhappier thirty years ago is somehow more correct?

    Remember, back in 1991, we still had the IRA setting off bombs in London and Belfast, people weren't happy about that. All of the evidence suggests that people are happier now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    no - a poster stated life is much better now than in the past. i asked are they happier. You posted a link to a site that promotes ireland, which claims irish people are the 13th happiest in the world. You may as well quote the Mirror.


    Then for some reason, you stick in the IRA. Where were you in 1991? You certainly werent in the north or have any idea of what it was like. you still dont.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    The UN's happiness report had Ireland at 16th in the world. This is just outside the top 10%. This most certainly was not the case in the 80s and 90s.

    You are looking at history through rose coloured glasses. Ireland in previous generations was grim. We have so much to be thankful for today but that is tenuous as we have no natural resources (like Norway has) or not much internal economy as we rely a lot on FDI. This is why people who worked hard all their lives are scared of SF as they could potentially scare away a lot the wealth in the country and rebuild modern day Ballymuns, Neilstowns and Darndales

    Post edited by Pawwed Rig on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We've recently had a period of more homeless children than ever before. Progress?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187



    Once the FG voters are getting richer, who cares? I read a piece in the Irish Times recently that made my skin crawl. It was a report on a property industry conference. Some dude from AIB, the bank that had to be bailed out twice, the most scandal-ridden institution in Irish history with the possible exception of the RCC, was saying it's rude to call vulture funds vulture funds, it offends them. I didn't realise they were the easily offended types. Precious snowflakes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    It is utterly offensive to suggest that the 30% of the population who vote SF haven't 'worked hard all their lives'. But incidentally what is the obsession with people having to have worked hard all their lives to have a say? Do people who have experienced unemployment due to illness or recessions not have rights as citizens? What about unpaid work, carers and so on? Your implication that SF is somehow responsible for troubled housing estates in Darndale etc is bizarre. Those estates were built under FF and FG governments. But actually, yes, there should be more public housing.

    Did the UN even produce similar reports in the 1980s and 1990s? I would like to see them if so.

    The manner in which you and those who agree with you believe happiness is entirely tied up with prosperity is quite worrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    He/she doesn't realise that SF have firmly become the largest party in every age bracket bar the over 60s and have cut deep into the ABC1 middle class voter demographic as well.

    Paddy ain't thick. Voters who go out and work for a living realise that FG are a party who have been on neoliberal autopilot for a decade and leaving the economy and critical sectors like housing and health is an extremely dangerous proposition. They are a luxury the country can't afford anymore and are more interested in bribing pensioners and those close to retirement with goodies in an attempt to keep some sort of voter bloc onside. Even the reliable middle class vote is deserting them as they send their kids off to college in Dublin / Cork and are paying 15k a year to have them live somewhere that doesn't have black mould on the walls.

    SF may or may not have the answers, and time will tell, but middle Ireland that isn't drawing a pension have definitively decided that FG definitely don't have anything for them anymore and they're not even going to try.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Yep. Spot on. The "SF voters are all wannabe terrorists or dole scroungers who want to eat your babies" line from the Zanu FG/FF establishment and their media mouthpieces isn't working. As you say, Paddy isn't thick. In fact the media hysteria directed against them is so over-the-top that it probably benefits them (and I would have many criticisms of the party).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Not sure how you derived half of what you wrote from my posts but I cannot help if you are offended.

    https://youtu.be/vbsHox73mRo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    You stated those who have worked hard all their lives want FDI protected and SF can't be trusted to do that etc etc. The obvious implication is that you believe SF voters are not people who have 'worked hard'. Is that offensive? Frankly, yes.

    I note you don't answer why you think SF is to blame for troubled housing estates in Darndale and other areas. They didn't even stand candidates for election when those estates were being built in the 1960s and 1970s because their policy then was not to recognise the institutions of the Republic of Ireland until unification was achieved. I think they polled at about 1% the first year they dropped the abstention policy (1986 or so). They weren't within an ass's roar of political power, put it that way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    You need to watch the video I sent you.


    At no point did I say Sinn Fein were responsible for Darndale. I suggest you read my post again and concentrate on what I actually said rather than your feelings and what you think I might have meant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    You seem detached from reality. The majority of the electorate are not workshy. Based on unemployment levels alone you're talking nonsense.

    Watching your taxes go on profits for vulture and cuckoo funds while you can't afford a roof never mind profiting off property and attitudes like yours would explain why voters are moving away.

    FG won't have the Troubles and other scaremongering to hide behind and use for much longer. People caught up in the housing crisis have had enough of that distractionary shite talk. FG/FF are failures. While we are progressing a few vested intetests are always getting very wealthy while generations struggle to get by.

    What would you call one small room and a shared kitchen? Thats were FG would have people living. Thats tenements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187



    No, I don't 'need' to watch the video you sent me, or any video anyone sends me at any time. I suggest you read my post and concentrate on what I actually said rather than your feelings and what you think I might have meant.

    You 'need' to explain why it is you think that if SF were in government we would have a repeat of the Fianna Fail/Fine Gael 1960s policy of moving families from the inner city of Dublin to live in badly serviced unsuitable and plain ugly social housing in Ballymun, Darndale etc.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Where did I say the majority of the electorate are work shy?

    Please read my post before responding. You and the other lad are reading all sorts of things into what was a fairly clear statement



Advertisement