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Female James Bond on the horizon.

13567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭Mav11


    I used to be a big fan of Dr Who and thought that Jody Whittaker was a great actor, Broadchurch etc. I’ve changed my mind about both now. Couldn’t be arsed watching either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,566 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett wrote Ellen Ripley as a man in the first place. She was only changed to a woman because Weaver's audition was spot on. In fact all the characters were written as men, but the auditions were open to women too and if they fit the bill, it was game on. There's also nothing really female about Ellen Ripley in 'Alien' either. In fact, if you take away the cat, she loses nearly all of her femininity and in the very first draft Jones didn't exist.

    I think Veronica Cartwright, who also auditioned for the role of Ripley, said that she played her character (Lambert) as more womanly to offset Weaver's more neutral take. She initially disliked the character as he/she was written as a bit cowardly. But she threw herself into it anyway and gives a good performance that always gets overshadowed by Weaver. I think she also suggested that there might be a bit of queen beeism going on between the ships only two females and this can be seen in the extended edition of 'Alien' where the characters are more bitchy to each other than in the theatrical cut.

    However, yes, Ripley ended up being established in the audiences mind as a woman but the character didn't start out that way and, also yes, a remake of 'Alien' (ugh, the very idea) where Ripley was now a bloke would be just as face palm inducing as sex changing James Bond into a woman.

    The thing is, the objection is not to a female spy. There have been plenty of those throughout the years. The objection is to the cheap piggybacking on something that already exists.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A few comments from folk desperate to call people bigots. Oh it can't be any other reason than racism/sexism, and any other reasons given are lies.

    If someone started a thread complaining about Ripley or Uhura, or Luther, they'd have a point. Those are established characters. But when remakes are done for political reasons, the questioning of it is perfectly fair.

    I mean, the casting of a black actress as Anne Boleyn is just so silly. It's historical - not fiction. People can decide the only reason I say this is due to being racist - that's what they want to think, but it's no different to me thinking how ridiculous it would be if a white woman was cast as a black non fictional figure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    So what you're saying is that it's ok to have a character who is still a seducer and action man in his 90s, or have a character who lives in the 1960s and suddenly finds himself living in the 2020s, but the character certainly CANNOT change gender (or race?). That seems like a fairly arbitrary line to draw, given the other flexibilities we are allowing the creators. There's no reason all the films would not continue to be set in the 1950s and 1960s. You don't hear anyone moaning about them setting them in the last decade, despite the fact that the character was not written to exist in that time period.

    Anyway, I know it's the in thing these days to be a reactionary and fight perceived 'wokeness'. I certainly don't want to get in the way of people virtue signalling that they are outraged about these things (not necessarily referring to you here - but you know the type I mean).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Surely all these diehard Bond fans know that Craig Bond has made it part of the story that Bond is an alias so by the writing of the show itself Bond can be anything.

    The premise of the show now demands that every Bond be a distinctive personality thanks to the crappy modern Bond writers/advertising execs



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    As I've mentioned a couple of times, the source material has Bond living in the 1950s and 1960s, rather than 70 years later. There's no reason whatsoever why the films could not continue to be set in that time period. Thus the outrage seems pretty selective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I would love if they had kept bond in the cold war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Agree. The tradecraft etc. in those days was so interesting, and it was all more relatable.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The producer of the James Bond films has ruled out making the character female after Daniel Craig's departure

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-51133194



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    No. Just No.

    Thandie has had plenty of opportunities to shine in rom-coms, SciFi, action movies, TV series. I don't even remember her in some of the films she's been in.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Atomic Blond was the recent film with a female , didn't lead to a sequel or copy cats.

    Harry Palmer films or Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy series for tradecraft.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That is rubbish. Bond has a history, and a back story. His parents were called Andrew Bond and Monique Delacroix-Bond, they died in a mountain climbing accident. It's not an alias it's a character with an established history. Any die hard fan will tell you that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Hyperbollix


    I doubt the Broccoli family will allow any major changes to the Bond formula, and making him have a sex change would be fairly major. If they didn't own the brand and have the influence they do, I'd imagine practically anything could happen, such is the level of culture war lunacy that's coming out of America these days.

    Since the Bond franchise isn't much more than a glorified product placement vehicle, the studio will be desperate to pander to current Hollywood political agendas though, so we'll see all sort of fiddling around the edges and watering down of the character.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Will we get getting a Wonder Man too, I see no issue with a female bond, but James Bond is a man after all, he's not a woman. Indiana Jones is a man also, but it didn't stop Lara Croft . You really can't make a male character female, but what you can do is create a whole new character, a female British secret agent and have it as a bond movie, even with a cameo from James Bond, as to make it clear the female is not suppose to be James Bond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Your right. I have clearly just made up an entire scene where they give him the name in my head



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Bond to me is the glory days of Connery and Moore. That’s real Bond. The real classics.

    it’s been in decline decades now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    You can do a non white Bond easily enough without ruining the character. There's plenty of young English talent that can do it and embody what Bond is. Elba is probably too old now although he'd have made a good Bond but someone like Daniel Kaluuya or Henry Golding would work.

    A female Bond doesn't. It'd be best to do a female agent in the same universe if they wanted to do that (006 being a female or something) and just create a new character.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't mind a change in skin colour. I thing David Oyelowo could do a decent job. He has Spy acting experience from Spooks.

    I'm not averse to a female secret agent. How many seasons of Alias were there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I thought there was a scene where he is given the name and number but as I say maybe I dreamed it.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ive seen every james bond movie multiple times and read most of the books, I don't remember that scene ever occurring.

    Also, when you said "I must have made it up" I thought you were being sarcastic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    No I just remember something that never happened. In fairness I zone out of Craig Bond movies quite easy.

    My favourite thing would be for Bond to disappear for a while and come back someday as a real movie with no corporate crap but not gonna happen so as for who should play him I don't have a clue. Elba probably missed his chance, O'Connell would be too much like Craig and Hiddleston takes the posh thing to parody levels. Can't really think of a single British actor of any gender or colour who stands out



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In the current politically correct climate, the only way we are getting a Connery style-Bond that whores and sleazes his away all over asia is for a woman to be cast as Bond. It would be awesome



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    The word "woke" appears nine times in this thread (ten now, you're welcome).



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Idris Elba would make a great Bond. He has this charisma and swagger about him in some work and also displays an "edge".



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Just a shame Bond is a white straight male.

    He's great in Luther though, utterly compelling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭billyhead




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday




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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    A straight white male who is about 90 years old. Funny that that part does not seem to bother you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think Bond has ran its course, maybe time to retire it altogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭mohawk


    I don’t like these ideas of swapping out male characters for female characters. What is wrong with female characters having their own stories etc. Bond has been played a certain way until now a female would take it in a complete different direction and just wouldn’t be Bond. It’s so lazy and definitely seems like a lack of ideas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,790 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    what age is Homer Simpson now...

    When I was seventeen,
    I drank some very good beer,
    I drank some very good beer
    I purchased with a fake ID.
    My name was Brian McGee,
    I stayed up listenin' to Queen
    When I was seventeen.
    


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yep. All the who's the next Bond stuff is just marketing to paper over a tired series



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    That's harsh on Craig, I mean, I know he's getting on but...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    All the Bonds were never big names, that's why it works. It never works when you pick a big star to play Bond, makes no sense, as you know him from else where.

    Next Bond should be a great unknown, that way he makes it his own, like the great Bonds did.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are comments on social media complaining about the diversity of the current BBC series Vigil.

    Now that's racist arsehole carry-on. Britain is an extremely diverse society with a massive population - of course there will be minorities in the navy. The overwhelming majority of the cast are white anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I'd understand the outrage more if they made Bond American or something. Bond's skin colour is of little importance, his background/culture, style and charisma are the key qualities in the character.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    None of this matters when the films are pure muck. Like, the motivation for the villain in the last film was that his dad adopted Bond and then spent a lot of time with him so he became jealous and set up an international criminal organisation. Even Goldmember wasn't that daft.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah now, that's as good a reason as any to start an international terrorism organisation. I'd be raging too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is there outrage here over the prospect of a black 007 though? If true to the book, it wouldn't fit but it's off book a long time. M was played by Judi Dench (awesomely) for many years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭sekiro


    Personally, I found this comment very interesting.

    Does anyone think that there might be an element of something akin to vandalism going on here?

    So, who really likes James Bond movies? Older, white, straight, guys who want to see lovely girls and cars and watches and explosions and gadgets. What could be worse, right? What an opportunity to wind those people up by taking something they like and turning it onto something they don't like.

    Surely the movie industry would not operate like that but sometimes I do wonder. James Bond does seem to be the kind of thing that appeals to a very specific demographic and there does seem to be a kind of glee at the prospect of "taking their toys away" so I could really see it. Comments like the above at least confirm there is some eagerness to see this play out. Like we wouldn't necessarily want to go and watch a female Bond ourselves but, by God, wouldn't it be fun to see all the old Bond fans lose their minds?

    Reflecting on it though that's kind of horrible. Oh, that thing you like? Hahahaha! Not any more!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    old straight white guys are so persecuted these days you have to feel for them



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    A spy should realistically be the most ordinary, boring, average, uninteresting looking person out there. The type of fellow you'd not look at twice and two seconds later not remembering what they look like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You are making a massive and incorrect assumption as to who watches Bond these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭sekiro


    I don't get your point. I wasn't saying that anyone or any group is or is not persecuted.

    Yes, I would feel for people who really love James Bond movies if there is an active effort to ruin them for that audience. I don't care that much about it though outside of thinking that this "it's time to let someone else have a shot of the popular brand name" is an interesting aspect of modern entertainment.

    Not sure what I am supposed to take from your response. I speculated that some people would be open to the idea of taking something that is liked by a specific demographic and ruining it because it's a bit of a laugh. You are pretty much confirming that but instead of just saying you agree you are trying to make it sound like I am moaning about the plight of old straight white guys. That's way off the mark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Yeah man, not as if Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnon both won sexiest man alive awards over the years, Daniel Craig is hardly a boring looking man. But sure yeah, them being white makes them look ordinary and average.

    They definitely hired all those actors over the years because they looked plain and ordinary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭sekiro


    I was playing off the comment from @Thelonious Monk more than anything, to be honest.

    "Brilliant, it'll wind up the old men on this site to no end. Rabble Rabble rabble."

    I didn't look into what kind of people actually like Bond movies or anything like that outside of assuming who they are targeted at and kind of agreeing with the other poster that "old men" is the target audience.

    Either way, I think there seems to be a strong desire to change entertainment brands/franchises in a way that annoys the long-term fans and a pretty enthusiastic bunch of people who enjoy seeing that happen. I don't really know why.

    I don't know how they can reinvent the brand when it carries so much baggage and I'm pretty sure that "it'll wind up all the right people" is not really a great starting point.

    What the hell do I know, though? I have no idea how the marketing plans for these movies are drawn up and what kind of revenue makes a thing a success or failure. It does feel like a Lady Bond isn't necessarily going to have a brand new audience rushing out to the cinema. Maybe it would though.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Did I say any of these lads were ordinary looking?



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