Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

In years, I've yet to come across one user conspiracy on the forum that turned out to be true. Let's be frank here, the key issue is that users are posting stuff that is generally baseless or untrue, okay fine, but naturally this stuff crumbles under basic discussion and questions, and it's obvious certain users don't like that. Instead of realising the obvious, these users often lash out at the questions, other posters asking about the theory, the sceptics, the mods, the charter, etc. We see it time and time again, thread after thread.

Conspiracies happen often, you only have to switch on the news, but few if any of these are brought into the forum. Instead there's a lot of denial (science denial, events denial), a lot of innuendo, but very few fleshed out theories. The forum has also become a heavy dumping ground for pseudo-science, anti-vax, views and so on.

So how do we improve the forum?

Perhaps better rules on the civility of posters (which goes both ways). Another proposed solution is a template where posters fill out what their theories are and give basic details/evidence (Note that there's complete radio silence from conspiracy believers on this)

We have had countless threads, some hundreds of pages long, whereby no one can coherently explain what the theory is or even if there is one. Okay. Maybe there isn't a credible theory. But when does someone ever admit that? when does someone say "I don't know" to a question? when does someone say "ah thanks, I didn't know that information"? Posters often come in treating their views as sacred and go to war the moment they are challenged, then act persecuted about it, and then go about trying to create a vacuum where their views can't be challenged or discussed normally, as if that is the solution

This isn't the "Werewolves" forum whereby people let a group of posters indulge in something that is obviously a fantasy. The conspiracy forum involves history, science, current affairs - and posters pushing a hell of a lot of disinformation about them, using the leeway of the forum to get it through, many of whom have been flushed down there by mods of other forums, or who have been banned in other threads - that's the reality.

You were using Covid conspiracy as your point, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that in your segue to proven conspiracy that you were still on that train.

It's ok that you weren't, but don't try and spin a lack of clarity in your post into an unwarranted question on my part.

But just to be precise myself.

Let's drop Covid from my question, I await your proven theories.

On the contrary.

While there are some which become facts before internet and message boards were widely used, we have few recent. Like latest one which came about quite fast and with internet message boards involved. That isis-k planner destroyed by precision strike? Numerous lives saved, big blow to isis-k planning and operational capabilities.

And while the government was proudly proclaiming all of the above there was already talk about children being killed. Only to be dismissed, as conspiracy theory. We all know what happened right?

Exactly as I said. Saying "I do not know" result to instant ridicule like you just did. 😉

Would you kindly point to me where in my post to which you reacted did I use Covid conspiracy as my point which made you confused? English is not my first language and I still struggle with grammar and all but I still cant see it.

Again, I believe this is what we are talking about in this thread. That constant ridicule and indirect attacks like - trying to spin a lack of clarity into unwarranted question? Forgive my English and maybe I just read it wrong, but this seems to me like you feel as a victim of my scheming right now when all you should do is perhaps to go easier on "reasonable to assume"?

Just to illustrate this.

What patnor is doing is indicative of the problem. He was asked a very simple and direct question because he made a statement of fact.

He wasn't asked to prove there are true conspiracy theories. No one demanded anything. He was just asked to name some examples.

Yet, we are now 3-4 posts deep and he hasn't actually answered that question.

And all of this is a complete tangent to the dozens of points made by us about how the forum could be improved or what the issues are.

In fact, I don't think we've seen more than a handful of answers to the points or questions we've raised. And those are at best, like a sentence long after holding people down to actually answer them.

I agree with you, but it's the example they chose when asked to illustrate it.

I've lain out why I think that it's not a conspiracy, and why I think they are conflating 2 separate attacks. I may be mistaken and I'm sure they will clarify.

I'm not going to go down the path of saying wrong or deflection just yet.

But I do find it odd that a mistake that was not only admitted to by the Americans, but was widely reported and even had a press conference where a CentCom general laid out a step by step timeline of what happened in the Kabul strike, along with the motivations, could be labelled a conspiracy at all?

Fog of war, horrible mistake, poor planning and rushed execution, Yes certainly. But no conspiracy that I have yet to see.

I'd agree tbh.

As far as I can see in my time on the thread it's the only reasonable suggestion to date.

A requirement to lay out evidence and that it doesn't need to be exhaustive. Just what a poster has deigned sufficient for them to subscribe to the theory as plausible.

@patnor1011

You know it, and we know it, that the line of "Well there have been conspiracies in the past" is not a valid one to give people carte blanche to just make up any aul sh*t and not have it questioned.

Even if The Queen came out and said she had Diana killed, that doesn't mean Freethinker73 can just start a thread on CT saying that the Covid vaccine is killing two people for every one person it saves (Something I actually saw posted on Instagram today) and not back it up with evidence.

The only reason the forum is active is because the same 4-5 posters repeat themselves incessantly in their condescending and sneering tone as the OP suggested. As a forum dedicated to conspiracies it fails miserably on every front and really only serves to give the impression that there is a place to discuss conspiracy theories. (or of course as a dumping ground for threads that don't fit the mold in other forums). This is why some CT supporters want the place shut down - to cut the head of the snake so to speak.

Despite this thread going on for a soul destroying 34 pages of 99% nonsense, I think it did a good job at pin-pointing the exact problem - "Sea-lioning" (credit to @Cognitive Dissident link to post here: #359 )

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

I propose a rule that all questions being put towards a conspiracy theory from all sceptics be summarised into one post that can only exist once per page of posts. This will stop the flood of nauseating repetition that turns so many away from the forums. If the OP or other believers in the conspiracy don't make a reasonable attempt to answer the questions or provide a reason for why the question is irrelevant then the thread can be locked after a certain duration of inactivity.

In my opinion there is no problem to ask for evidence. If the person cant or wont provide it fair enough. Thread will die as there will hardly be anyone to keep it going apart from OP. Others will see there is no argument to support or facts provided and that's that.

What make conspiracy theory forum pain to read or pretty much pure garbage are not theories (they are mostly entertaining) but constant flood of not so hidden or clever insults, sneering, name calling and patting on back between few people who pretty much appropriated that section and compete about how much of abuse they can throw at anyone who come in there.

Whoever owns the summary post can add the answer (or link to the post) and any follow-up questions can then be added underneath. 99% of the time your questions don't get answered because they are buried amongst pages and pages of posts. The burden is left with the theorist to search back through the thread for unanswered questions - nobody has time for this.

With this solution - everyone can see what questions are pending so the thread doesn't get clogged out. If you open a thread with someone presenting a conspiracy and also a post full of unanswered questions then you know it should be taken with a grain of salt.

This then leaves room for meaningful debate where both sides can present arguments and counter arguments. And the incessant sea-lioning questions can't derail the thread.