Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Staff shortages coupled with a housing shortage. Dublin is in trouble.

Options
245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,989 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Tbf second highest min wage. Taken into cost of living it's not as Rosey we are 7th but with increases next year that will go push us up the list.

    Either way I do agree with Living wage discussion. But there is really a perception here that we have US levels of wages. Try that country out for some laugh.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    it is not simple as letting a load of immigrants when there is no place for them to live. My brother is a landlord and put a place on for rent two weeks ago for a 3 bed in dublin city and got over 300 replies in two days.


    I bet when the nightclubs come back next month you will have long ques at bars and wont be able to get a taxi at the weekend for love nor money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I would think its a mix of both money and hassle. Why is it okay for people to make profit off cheap labour but not try avoid that if you can? For some reason we expect people to rake it on the chin for the profit of others. F that noise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Doesn't tell the whole story though. Anyone know of a single minimum wage employer who reliably gives maximum hours?

    Minimum wage employers are penny pinchers by definition, they split shifts to avoid paying for breaks as a matter of course, so you can forget giving any one person enough hours they'd risk having to pay PTO.

    The housing and staffing issues are interlinked problems. Who, working a few hours a week minimum wage, can afford to pay rent in Dublin or to commute in from outside it? And those workers were also most likely to have been dropped like a hot snot by their bosses at the start of lockdown, they won't forget that.

    People thinking cutting the PUP will solve it can dream on - that has consistently failed to happen elsewhere as the PUP equivalents have ended, because the PUP isn't really the problem, the issues only amplified by the pandemic are the problem.

    The reality is, we've been engineering a city with prohibitive costs of living, so the staff we want to work for nothing can no longer afford it or the risk of precarious work.

    These chickens have been on their way to roost for quite some time. Either employers make themselves worth working for or the government needs to figure out a way to reduce cost of living, especially housing. Until then, people simply cannot afford to take these jobs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Make work more attractive and the problem goes away. Is the labour lazy or the employer greedy? Maybe both?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,492 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    More competition for jobs and people who are prepared to work for less will drive down wages. Big time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Biscuitus


    There's a flashback to a night out in Dublin walking around for 2 hours unable to get a taxi in the freezing cold that I'd like to forget.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,989 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm looking for a place to rent. I reply to average of 3/4 places everyday.

    I hardly ever get an answer. When I do, I go to see the property. I see about one or two non irish, out of average 12/15 people there.

    So, what does immigrants have to do with that?

    Also, thankfully I havent had to queue for a taxi for about 18 years.

    Plenty of taxis out there, mostly driven by immigrants, thanks for them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Given that there are 320,000 on the Live Register and PUP, why is there any need for non-EU immigrant workers?

    Can we not employ some of those 320,000, and so reduce the numbers unemployed?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    "What does immigration have to do with that"?.... the piont is that if there is a chronic shortage of housing in Dublin. How can bringing in a load of immigrants solve the labour shortage in Dublin city. Where will these immigrants live?


    I know taxis are mostly driven by immigrants. But I wonder how many have gone home or gone into something different since lockdown. Nightclubs have been shut for 18 months now. By far the most demand for taxis is on weekends nights in town. When nightlife returns I bet this will be another labour shortage problem.It is grand now because last orders is before the last of public transport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    You will find a certain section of those will never work, never have and never will. So yes immigration is the answer

    Its just a pity we couldn’t force a few countries to take a couple of people off our hands



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I see the PUP bashing continues unabated. It's quite extraordinary that DUBLIN based retailers and DUBLIN based employers groups can still be harping on that it's all PUP"s fault.

    Rarely do they discuss the actual reasons for staff shortages, namely wages, terms and conditions and now a rental accommodation crisis.

    Firstly, a quick glance at PUP recepient figures suggest 17K Retail associated employees still on the payment, but equally it suggests those numbers are spread across 26 counties, these vested interest groups seem to want us believe they are all Dublin based, it's a nonsense.

    Secondly the primary cohort that would have worked in retail (Students) no longer recieve PUP. those not students would have been earning, at best minimum wage, but of course this assuming they got full hours (MOST NEVER DID) , they too have had their PUP payment drastically reduced.

    Thirdly another Cohort worked in retail and Hospitality, namely people from Europe, South America, Asia etc, Guess what employers, you choose not to retain these people, did not avail of wage subsidy schemes, left these people to fend for themselves and un surprisingly they've ALL F**KED off. Now they are suggesting, let's re introduce work permits again, where do these clowns suggest these people are going to live exactly, commute from far flung destinations around Ireland, they are talking through their Back Sides. Hospitality sector also in trouble and its completely their own fault, staff we're treated disgracefully.

    Dublin is not Alone being in trouble, this nonsense narrative economy has reopened, every thing is grand and dandy is B****X, take a look at most rural towns and its plain to see what the reality is, enormous numbers of businesses closed and empty retail units scattered around the country.

    There's a final Hard Truth, Alot of small businesses are realistically only open because of ongoing government Supports which include wage subsidy schemes, which have cost far more than PUP ever did, interesting also that €10"s of Millions in payments clawed back by revenue recently from Employers failing to comply with eligibility criteria, it got barely a mention in the media. When those supports end, there's going to be a serious Reality Check and they'll have to find something other than PUP to Blame. Also watch out for an anticipated avalanche of Redundancies next month, I suppose PUP will get the blame again 🙄

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    If everyone “f**ked off” then they would have left all those house/apartment free for people to move into?

    So that’s not true. PUP is a huge problem and should have been scrapped months ago. It just burning more tax money when we need to invest in companies in Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Perhaps you might enlighten us all on current availability of rental properties in Dublin, Kildare, Laois Meath, offaly ( I'm being generous in including commuter belt) , Daft.ie might help.

    They Have F***Ked off, even vested interest and lobby groups admit this. ( Hence the clamber to re introduce work permits, the cynic in me thinks this idea not entirely related to staff shortages)

    PUP burning more Tax payers Money ?,

    I'll grant you it did as did and continues to, wage subsidy schemes, but less than €43 million last week I believe was paid out on PUP, are you aware how much wage subsidy schemes cost last, Month? Many 100''s of millions. Just also for the record, PUP is also taxable.

    Invest in what companies exactly ? completely different argument , Discussion.

    There's been ample reporting on the causes of staff shortages, so don't take my word for it, pop over to Sky News, BBC and see how the UK is fairing with Staff shortages, I suppose you'll suggest that's PUP'S fault too 🙄

    Post edited by Dempo1 on

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Get the feeling you'd love to see a lot of business shut their doors.. you know for having the temerity for trying to run their own business



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm certainly not and as it happens I have run businesses. I'm addressing a disgraceful narrative being peddled by some who fail to grasp that they are partly to blame for the current staff shortage crisis whilst also explaining this is not just a Dublin issue. I'm a Dub, leaving in Rural Laois for over 20 years. I also spent near 30 years in hospitality so have enough insight to the problems that sector is facing.

    My points about wage subsidy schemes is very simple, those who are critical of PUP seem not to understand TWSS is essentially an employers PUP, the harsh reality is, and few will admit it, a lot of businesses are clearly unsustainable and continue to be propped up.

    I absolutely do not wish to see any business fail but perspective and realism is required when one government support is bashed constantly and primarily by those who fail to look at the bigger picture or peddle false narratives.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Two sides to every story, these kids off school for the holidays get paid in a lower band of the minimum wage than say an employee who is older and more experienced.

    So it was great when the kids off school were there to supply the cheap labour but now we need the experienced employees to come back and for a lot less than they are receiving on the pup likely.

    Alot of these businesses benefited greatly from cheap labour and covid support during the pandemic as well .



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Cheap Labour, Gosh I never thought such a thing existed in Ireland 🙄 I'm not entirely sure what you mean by we now need "Experienced Employees to return for a lot less than they are receiving on PUP '

    Current Rates

    €300, €250 (Majority) , €203 pw , (ALL STUNDENTS RETURNING TO EDUCATION OFF PUP NOW)

    perhaps I'm missing something, experienced staff earning less than these amounts, Seriously 🙄

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Yes, then we quickly ran out of the people in Ireland who wanted to work so immigration was the answer. It still is.

    As I said, the sooner PUP is gone the better. People are sick of paying for someone elses life while they struggle on.

    We also need to review our tax system so everyone who is earning is contributing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I heard on the news last night that there are 17,000 people on Covid payment and why would they go back to work....

    I assume lots of them in their homeland having a good time... fair play to them...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    You will find a few people would prefer companies go bust than have to give up sitting at home on PUP

    All sorts of excuses been made as the gravy train is coming to the end



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Why do you think those 17000 are immigrants and not Irish?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    No,17K Allegedly retail workers (Spread over 26 counties, not as is being suggested all happilyresiding in Dublin, there's actually 110k still on PUP , I won't comment on the Homeland bit, I can read between the lines but very, very stringent checks being done weekly 😏

    The news you refer too went further, vested interests want the phasing out of PUP speeded up, no mention of course by these same people of speeding up an ending of their own government supports, very curious all together.

    Government have correctly said they've no plans to change to the phasing out process of PUP.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I wasn't aware the thread was just about Dublin... why wouldn't they go to their homeland if they not working i have no problem with that...

    Where are all the staff that were working before Covid... none of it makes sense to me....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I was repeating what the guy said on the news that alot of the people in the sector were not from Ireland... but that's for all to see....



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Whilst the Thread Title mentions Dublin, the problems are being felt outside Dublin .

    The sectors most vocal on staff shortages, Retail and Hospitality had a high dependency on workers from other countries (all excellent I might add, I worked with many)

    With little option to go on PUP initially, Rising costs, obviously family concerns abroad and uncertainty, they've left, that's just a simple fact. Even if they wanted to return (highly unlikely in the short term, finding and affording accommodation on the wages on offer is just near impossible, this even aside from accommodation availability issues.

    Of course there are Irish Ctizens still on PUP and the reasons go way beyond this narrative of laziness. Some have actually lost their Jobs and awaiting Redundancies, Some perhaps have actually returned home (outside Dublin), others are not being offered full time hours and most I suspect caught up in uncertainty. Separately and unrelated to PUP many people have just left these sectors all together and frankly, who'd blame them.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Good post... Seems we have a divided society... on one hand people with loads of dosh who can eat-out and spend as they please they please and the service staff who cannot afford a place to live... Its good enough for us as the housing thing has being coming for a few years now and Covid has changed the landscape on top of this...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Thank you , I get people's frustrations , I just wish that some would be a little more objective and less un caring in their assertions. Over all the Government have done a decent Job supporting both businesses and employees. I just feel at times it's easy to be critical rather than look at the bigger picture and both sides of an issue.

    I've absolutely no doubt there have been abuses of supports on both sides, Businesses and Employees ,but on the whole I still believe in decency , whilst looking at an issue from both sides of the coin so to speak.

    I recall that awful Cliché "we're all in this together " , long forgotten now it seems.

    There are real and Genuine hardships out there and there's still a while to go before the full story of the Pandemic and its affects is written or fully understood 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




Advertisement