Staff shortages coupled with a housing shortage. Dublin is in trouble.

dudley72 · 25-09-2021 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936502#Comment_117936502

that’s not true. In reality we have 3-4 tier

A very small percentage of ireland who have a lot of wealth.

The middle tier who in reality pay all the taxes, have jobs, have kids, are the ones who are constantly hit to pay for everything. The people that all during covid worked or had to go out to work ASAP to keep everything afloat

The people on lower wages but contribute nothing in terms of tax etc to the country, as seen in covid this bracket went onto PUP without any loss of tax intake

The permanent social welfare people which is growing, haven’t worked and will never work their entire life.

The line that millions of people are walking around ireland throwing money around is rubbish and spun by some polticial parties. It ain’t true

BobHopeless · 25-09-2021 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936529#Comment_117936529

What a load of sh1t. Lower paid workers had to work through Covid in lots of industry's for peanuts whilst middle class workers sat at home on their laptops. Lower paid workers also have jobs, have kids and pay taxes.

mariaalice · 25-09-2021 10:10am

The fact that Borris has to issue special visas for truck drivers all ahused Brexit says it a really.

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936529#Comment_117936529

It's clear you believe that negativity = Truth , its also clear what your thoughts on Social welfare are. Happy you've clearly a stress free life, with no worries or a care in the world .

There are currently 175k approx on SW job seeker related payments, Many more on Illness related claims , I'm sensing your resentment of all things Social Welfare and of course there's a Tiny percentage of very long term unemployed but my god, you paint a picture of a nation of scroungers, very depressing and factually incorrect.

Just as an aside, you may not be Aware there are 1000's also on part SW job seeker related payments, these are those who either can't or are not Offered full time hour's, are these to scroungers.

What's fascinating is you seem to accept low paid people don't contribute to Tax Revenue but don't ask why or even question why that is, could it be they earn so little. No mention of the fact low paid still pay PRSI and USC.

How did that search go for available rental properties go incidently.

That's it from me, going to leave it at that , enjoy the rest of your day .

25-09-2021 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936385#Comment_117936385

this quickly running out of people is nonsense.

There are plenty of places in the world, even in the west, with little or no immigration. In those cities or towns the minimum wage job is done by teenagers who live at home. Bringing in immigrants to do those jobs benefits next to nobody - the tax take is minimal, the immigrants live in hovels or the state has to provide accommodation, housing prices go up.

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2021 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934828#Comment_117934828

this is not how the real world works, we have become over reliant on the private sector money supply, i.e. credit, private sector businesses must effectively take on this new debt, in order to make payments, including employee pay, by shutting off pup payments, this puts incredible pressure on the private sector to do this. confidence in our economies is required in order for private sector businesses to do this, but our economies are currently extremely vulnerable, pup payments are/were giving us a buffer, a level of protection, providing citizens and businesses with liquidity, to maintain an element of economic activities, removing pup payments may in fact cause a slow down of economic activities. under these conditions, whats required to maintain a level of growing economic activities, under this approach, i.e. cutting pup payments, is actually for all of us to rush to the banks, start spending our deposits and to take out new loans, so who wants to go first!

mariaalice · 25-09-2021 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936651#Comment_117936651

Really teens can be truck drivers and run mid level restaurants, also who works in a butlers chocolate cafe on a Wensday morning when the teens are in school or college.

malinheader · 25-09-2021 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936358#Comment_117936358

Do the sums yourself. Say someone doing 40 hours a week minimum wage after deductions say less than 400.Take maybe travel expenses to and from work and any other expenses work related. Maybe not earning less than the pup now but not to much incentive for standing on your feet for 40 hours. And another thing the hospitality sector are very underpaid in my eyes for the work that is involved.

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937175#Comment_117937175

Your actual Point (which was absurd), was we need experienced staff to return earning less than they are getting on PUP, I've given you the current rates (Scroll back if your confused),

perhaps it's you that needs to do their Sums 🧐

malinheader · 25-09-2021 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937191#Comment_117937191

No, I have my sums well done. Absurd is people thinking that there was no cheap labour happening in this country. Truth is alot of the people who were being used as cheap labour have returned home thus leaving a big shortage.

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 1:20pm

Fact time:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20201214-1

We have a pretty chronic amount of people in low-wage employment in our society that is above the European average by 5 percentage points (Irish figure is 20%). The only non former Eastern-Bloc country above us is Germany, and their rate is accounted for by the former DDR dragging their figures down relative to the much wealthier West Germany.

This is not a healthy state of affairs. For reference, strong social democracies we like to think we're similar to have rates like 3.6% and 5% in low wage work (Sweden and Finland respectively).

Such an amount of people in low wage work is not socially sustainable.

25-09-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935290#Comment_117935290

Irish people, these days, don’t even want to clean up after themselves let alone others.

dudley72 · 25-09-2021 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936580#Comment_117936580

Yes because everyone in the "middle class" sits at a laptop 🙄what do you define as the middle class?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936618#Comment_117936618

No negativity with me,I told it as I seen it.

You have no idea what my life is like so not sure why you are making so many assumptions. I didn't paint a picture of a "Nation of scrougers". The exact opposite and I clearly marked a 4th tier so as not to lump everyone in together which is clearly your goal.

I seen this a lot recently, its a us v them mentality. In reality as I pointed out it is not a us v them because within Ireland we have loads of groups, some people don't like that because then its not as easy to create division.

So far you have talked down to everyone that has a different opinion than you. Boards is to share opinions, not shout down everyone else who has a different one. Will leave you to it

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937228#Comment_117937228

Again I refer to your absurd comment, of course there was cheap labour and it would seem your actually supportive of this, that's actually worse than absurd, it's actually disturbing.

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937306#Comment_117937306

You decry the us v them attitude and the other side of your mouth says low wage workers 'contribute nothing'. These are the people that kept the country running over the last 2 years and you see fit to sh*t on them. I'd urge you to take a hard look at yourself but I realize that's a waste of breath.

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937306#Comment_117937306

I make no judgements personally but will absolutely respond to quite pointed attitudes towards SW and more to the Point PUP supports. If refuting your bizzare claims is taken by you as being patronising, so be it but instead of bemoaning how badly you feel treated, perhaps instead respond coherently to a different point of you.

Moaner in Chief , Adrian Cummins from the Restaurant Association has just had his arse handed to him live on Radio by government an opposition TD's after making outlandish accusations of wide spread fraud re PUP. Absolutely disgraceful comments essentially claiming 110k PUP recipients are not even in the country. Utter clown

How's that search Going for all those available rental properties you seem to think exist 🤔

malinheader · 25-09-2021 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937311#Comment_117937311

I think you have taken me up totally wrong. I totally disagree with cheap labour and totally understand why some people are not going back to work in minimum wage jobs while the pup is still Available.

I think the minimum wage is a joke and definitely not a living wage, and now when a lot of sectors are calling for the people receiving pup to be looked into the pup supports still being given to these sectors have to be looked into also.

dudley72 · 25-09-2021 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937323#Comment_117937323

As usual you have a personal comment in a post. Nothing new.

I haven't s**t on anyone. If you want to turn the post that way, off you go. If you want to see people s**ting on someone, look at the reaction to the government offering the HSE staff a few days off. People tripping over themselves to complain about it.

Trying to say "they kept this country running" is rubbish, the entire country did that, from top to bottom. The problem at this stage is some peopel are taking advantage of the PUP and it should be shut down, it served it purpose. you have someone here trying to single out people who work in laptops? those people paid taxes etc during the crisis which has kept everything working. I would never disregard anyone.

I just clearly marked out how Irish society is, not like some people who want to start a us v them argument.

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937379#Comment_117937379

Do you have a mirror in your house? Shuffle over to it and take a look at yourself.

While the managerial / administrative class were sitting at home on pointless zoom meetings with their collective thumbs up their arses (Im broadly in that world so I'm entitled to say it), low wage workers were in meat processing facilities, manning supermarkets, making deliveries and much more.

You're part of an embittered class who is probably less important to the proper functioning of the economy than you'd care to admit, but you're a small notch above the service sector people you deride and it's psychologically important to you to do them down.

It's entirely consistent with your contributions in other threads which is dripping with disdain for others yet you're very impressed with yourself.

Your PUP theory is conspiratorial nonsense.

25-09-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936770#Comment_117936770

Are those minimum wage jobs? Managers? Truck drivers?

Because they shouldn’t be.

joseywhales · 25-09-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937235#Comment_117937235

I have huge envy for Finland. The best public education system and energy security with their nuclear reactors. They really get the big decisions right.

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937443#Comment_117937443

Indeed. Droll as they come and good to share a drink with as well! Beautiful place in the summertime with all their lakes - really look after their environment well.

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937352#Comment_117937352

I apologise sincerely, I read back and your correct, I did COMPLETELY miss read your posts and I am sorry, I stand humbly chastised 😏

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937424#Comment_117937424

Well said 👏👌👍

jrosen · 25-09-2021 2:25pm

There are industries that simply dont pay enough for people to stay in. Its not just about the basic hourly rate, for alot of retail/personal services and hospitality roles there are no other benefits, no health, no sick, no pension, no maternity pay. The hours are long, hard and often unsociable. Doing these jobs and taking home a low wage is fine if your living at home with mum and dad or in a house share with others. But with the cost of living in Ireland high, the cost of rent and purchase high these roles are not longer suited to providing someone with a reasonable salary that allows them to support themselves.

If we want to attract people into these roles and we want people to stay then the job and package needs to be attractive.

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937548#Comment_117937548

The nub of the matter. A case in point is Denmark's meat industry - which is large, very profitable and export dependant. Danes aren't too proud to do this work, and it's not because the Irish are workshy - it's because their plants pay well through collective bargaining and offer a future for people working there (pensions and benefits etc). Meanwhile, Irish processing facilities ship in people from Russia and further afield, stack them high in houseshares in provincial towns and in many cases don't even pay PRSI with management running profits and employment contracts through a third country. It's a dismal and grubby industry and is treated with absolute kid gloves by the government. Atrocious for for the farmers who provide the primary input, atrocious for the workers in the processing facility who are treated like crap, and just about the only gain goes to the processor who have the cheek to run their profits through their books in Luxembourg on a tax dodge and lobby the government like hell as if they hold up the sky all by themselves.

dudley72 · 25-09-2021 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937424#Comment_117937424

I never said what I do, so not sure why you are making these assumptions? Especially when you are not very good at making them

I don’t distain anyone, someone who make a million v someone who make 20 cent, that’s the difference here. It seems a few people here just want to hate someone else. I do think everyone should pay their fair share

anyway as usual these discussions are reduced to childish comments so I will leave you to it

Dempo1 · 25-09-2021 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937766#Comment_117937766

You did distain people and then dug a rather large hole denying it.

Let's just leave it that

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2021 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937379#Comment_117937379

once again, pup payments created critically needed liquidity for the economy, i.e. cash money, withdrawing this money from the economy will in fact reduce economic activities, pup payments should in fact remain in place, but at a reduced rate, in order to safe guard the economy, until we return to some sort of normality. we re exposing the whole economy by not doing so, in particular many private sector businesses who desperately need this liquidity to survive

Yurt2 · 25-09-2021 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937766#Comment_117937766

Who's not paying their fair share?

Let's take a worker on 22-26k working full-time in a retail environment and if living in an urban setting almost certainly renting. How much more do you want to tax them and for what purpose? Just so you can fold your arms and say "great, they're paying their fair share now". Before, their economic circumstances were extremely precarious, afterwards you've driven them into poverty. Great result. You can't draw blood from a stone and 1 in 5 workers in this country are in this situation. As presented to you earlier, we're the worst country in the EU from the other side of the former iron curtain for the proportion of workers on low wages. This is the economy we've built for ourselves.

Driving people into poverty just to sate someone else's perceived tax anxiety is dumb politics and will drive this country into the sea socially and you're not prepared for the consequences of that. Unless you're in the top 10% of earners, and I doubt you are, you're not even paying that much tax compared to European peers of the same earning bracket (in fact, you're likely paying a lot less).

Staff shortages coupled with a housing shortage. Dublin is in trouble.

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