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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,336 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    its the one in the Frascati centre in Blackrock, its just a food store, maybe its their Potemkin store? more wives of senior civil servants per square foot of shopping space than anywhere in South Dublin, ha ha

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,494 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    My primary point of reference is the Patricks St. store which at 50k sq feet is a decent size for Marks. The other is Douglas, while a lot smaller is also grocery/drapery. It’s be a shame to lose them, not only for the jobs lost, but it’s be another vacancy on already diminished Main Street. They were fantastic employers too, my sister worked there part time while I was in Dunnes. To say there was a difference in benefits (even to part timers like ourselves) would be an understatement, it was night and day.

    Convolved is right in a way, they’re a terrible bellwether for Irish stores, but they do highlight an awful lot of the issues surrounding Brexit to an inwardly focused British outfit. To centralise distribution in Scotland three or four years back is just a head scratcher. But then again Marks do seem to have a talent for less than stellar executive appointments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan


    http://ireland2050.ie/questions/where-does-irelands-gas-come-from-and-what-determines-its-price/

    "We can access gas at wholesale prices which are in line with European market prices as the gas market in Britain is competitive. Direct imports of gas into Ireland (for example through an LNG import facility) would be possible but would only be viable if the tariff for such a facility was less than the pipeline transport cost between Britain and Ireland"

    Basically we switch to cheaper EU gas once the piped British gas becomes more expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭CptMonkey


    I always wondered why they didn’t source more here but i never thought that they looked at the market here as just an extension of the wider UK one. Makes more sense now



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,494 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones



    The Irish stores were some of the few bright spots in a perennially underperforming chain. I wonder whether separating them out would have further brought scrutiny as to the state of stores in the UK.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,070 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Irish M&S stores were more profitable because they charged 20% more than the UK stores, and shoppers that frequented M&S here paid it. They imported every thing from GB, and ran it as if it were a UK store, but just higher prices.

    I wonder how long the Irish market will take to move away from the lazy approach of sourcing from GB rather than from EU suppliers?

    Do the German and French auto manufacturers still treat Ireland as part of the RHD market rather than part of the EU market? The cars are made on the same assembly line, or could be.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ireland is part of the RHD market. There's no real getting around that. It's probably one of the biggest issues we face. Everything else is rather minor from the point of view of legacy UK technical standards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,336 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    why is it an "issue"?, as long as Europe wants to sell cars to Britain they will keep making them, plus Japan is RHD and any brand of note sells to that market.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan


    What's the problem?

    There's dealers switched to importing used European cars from Japan as it's cheaper than from Britain.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The point I am making is that the RHD market is Britain, Malta, Cyprus, Australia, NZ, Japan, India, Nigeria, and a few other places.

    Why export cars to GB and then reimport them back into the EU that makes them liable to a10% duty - instead of directly importing them to Ireland? Perhaps they do for full cars, but not for components/spares.

    There should be a move to decouple as much of the supply chain side from GB to get the EU to supply us directly for EU products, or substitute equivalent products from the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Seasoft


    On 3rd Sept 1967 Sweden switched from RHD to LHD, it more accurately, from driving on the left side of roads to driving on the right. It took much planning, expense initially, and preparation but it was achieved. It made sense as at the time Sweden was alone among its neighbours as driving on the left.

    For different reasons, post Brexit, perhaps we should at least evaluate the possibility of changing. It would mean our cars would be sourced from the larger market for LHD models of the EU, and perhaps be cheaper ( Govt willing) and have better specifications.

    Main spanner in the works would be having a border with N.I. which would then be different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan


    What parts can't be sourced from the EU supply chain?

    Tata motors has EU factories producing British brands like Landrover and Jaguar.

    There's actually nothing crucial about the British to Ireland. Besides in the next years the Chinese brands will be everwhere and they'll produce cars for Ireland the same as they produce for the UK, Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, etc....



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,494 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    The cost of switching would be staggering, astronomical. The simplest back of a napkin calculation would tell you it’s a complete non runner. Maybe pre motorway network you might have had a chance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,190 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Exactly. You'd need to change the entire road network nearly all at the same time.

    Also manage the swap from LHD to RHD cars.

    Also manage the transition between RoI and NI.

    Also roll out training to drivers who are unfamiliar with driving RHD cars and trucks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    Why would LHD be cheaper? Isn't there an EU regulation preventing the charging of higher prices for RHD as compared to LHD?



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Are insurers still loading the insurance on Japanese imports?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We'll probably be using drive by wire systems at some point in the future where the mechanical parts of the car are controlled by electronics from the cabin, where the position of the driver in the car could be very cheaply re-configured, all that the manufacturers would need to do is have auto adjusting headlights to allow them to drive on either side of the road without blinding oncoming cars. It's never going to happen that we'll move to LHD in Ireland.

    As we get more 'self driving cars' or cars with self driving features, which are becoming mandatory from next year for all new cars (lane assist, automatic braking, adaptive cruise control etc) having the mechanical steering jutting out into the cabin of the car becomes less and less useful, and would actually reduce safety in a car accident and increase range as it would remove the need for heavy linkage



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It is too late to switch.

    We have built the motorways and improved most roads. Just think of the cost of moving the road signs from the LH side of the road to the other side. The cost of re-engineering the entry and exit from the junctions. And that is just the roads. Then the existing cars need to be replaced - who will pay for that? And for what? LHD and RHD do not cost significantly more to produce.

    We should be buying new cars, and keeping them longer, not relying on rejects from GB and Japan.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    Most cars were LHD in Sweden in 1967. Only busses had to be changed.

    If you imagine Sweden had invested the cost of the change in 1967 and continued driving to the left until now. The resulting 2021 capital would not have been able to pay for anything like a 2021 left to right change - not even close.

    If a UI did decide to change to driving to the right, newer Irish RHD (used) cars might be exported to the GB.

    Lars 😀



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It is the practice I'm talking about, not the posible supply chain.

    I understand VAG parts for Ireland are routed through GB which incurs 10% duty. They should be routed directly. I assume VAG cars for NI are also sourced from GB, again they should be routed through Dublin.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Eu regulations say manufacturers and auto dealers must offer RHD options.

    Top Gear did a thing on it where you could buy a Rover with full European wide cover for several grand less than in the UK including all the forms re-licensing and ferry costs. IIRC VRT meant that margins were a lot lower here so no point.

    UK imports most of it's cars and exports most of it's production so both sides have an interest in having RHD and LHD options.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Seems the British petrol supply situation has rapidly become dire as a result of panic buying. Apparently, by late tonight around half of UK forecourts had already run out of petrol and there are fears the real number is much higher than this - talk of Johnson having to call the Army in.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s an issue if the U.K. wanders off EU specs eg sourcing same models as say Australia, NZ or direct and unmodified Japanese imports, or relaxes a whole load of “red tape” to appeal to car enthusiasts- particularly things like emissions limits, EU safety standards etc are EU specific and they are becoming increasingly specific and complex.

    We end up with a tiny internal EU market for RHD, and unless we had derogations, it has a potential to cause issues here.

    Every other technical area has simple solutions. This really doesn’t.

    Switching to LHD isn’t really feasible. So the only thing I can see working will be derogations if the market becomes problematic here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,080 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Thats all a bit irrelevant. The market disparity is narrowing as we accelerate the phasing in of EVs, which negates emissions standards as a sticking point and as we speak the Worlds top 60 car brands are actually only 12 different companies, so the sharing of tech and the 'world car' approach by the makers will unify the regulations anyway.

    Could we shift to LHD to save market specific costs? Yes we could but.....

    With the rapid advancement of autonomy and the increase in wired rather than mechanical car controls, will we need to? No.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    There's a large matalan warehouse near where I work.Many of the workers there are Eastern European,the local radio station has been advertising positions there with a fairly hefty signing on bonus,here's a link.They must be struggling to fill positions.

    https://matalan.jobs/search/7393



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,190 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Same in the US.

    Half the shops seem to have "Help Wanted" signs in the windows. Some are offering decent signing bonuses too.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The temporary visas are so incredibly cynical with how they end on Christmas Eve. As if the English can only celebrate Christmas Day properly if they're safe in the knowledge that the foreigners who prepared and delivered their turkeys have been turfed out of the country the night before.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,517 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    We have no way of 'onshoring' cheaper EU gas. There's no LNG port in Ireland and I expect no LNG storage either.

    The government's plan is to have a study, which means, well, nothing. The government should be moving forward on an LNG port, if for nothing else emergency use should the country move forward on renewables as a replacement for LNG.

    Really the UK could put us in a difficult position should the pipeline to Scotland be shut down.



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