Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Andrea B. · 27-09-2021 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945661#Comment_117945661

Blood splatter on perpetrator and solid dna on brick from scratching perpetrator.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2021 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945816#Comment_117945816

Can't you get blood splatter from stabbing someone?

And if wearing gloves, you wouldn't leave DNA on a brick?

mamboozle · 27-09-2021 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945631#Comment_117945631

I hope you know he's having a laugh. It's a wind-up.

Look ;

"Indeed, as legally wrong as the French themselves were, to rely on such tainted evidence, they made at least one valid point. They suggested the Irish were looking at every part of the case in isolation and eliminating each piece one by one - then concluding that it all added up to nothing."

if your team has 4 attempts at scoring during a game and 2 go wide and 2 are saved and the other team doesn't score an own goal, you will have zero goals, but in France douze points it seems

Andrea B. · 27-09-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945862#Comment_117945862

From the swing of knife yes, but less chance if slow.

Ultimately, just trying to say that a hitman using a block...i just don't buy it.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2021 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945891#Comment_117945891

Interesting re: the knife. Although that might suggest a degree of skill \ awareness which not all hitmen in 1996 may have posssesed.

The block does suggest either a very personal attack fueled by rage at the specific victim OR a very impersonal attack, that of a serial killer who depersonalizes the victim.

But then, if you were a hitman with a view to staging a scene* of a crime of passion, and you happen to spot that for use as the coup de grace and as you are wearing gloves... well why not?

*Staging the scene because a hit that looks too professional points back to the husband

mamboozle · 27-09-2021 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945527#Comment_117945527

It does look like the most plausible explanation for Leo's miraculous remembering but is it not a bit too easy to allow us believe he's lying to stay out of jail? What if Leo really did have something to say that the Guards didn't want out in the open and he threatens to say it if he goes down? So they come up with this one that doesn't matter anyway and no-one of any importance believes. Curious.

chooseusername · 27-09-2021 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945814#Comment_117945814

The block was about 6 ins from Sophie's leg, it was actually on top of her blue housecoat.

27-09-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946026#Comment_117946026

Interesting.

If you are going to crush someone's head with a concrete block, why bother lifting it off again and throwing it aside?

odyssey06 · 27-09-2021 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946062#Comment_117946062

Could it have been pushed from a height and rolled off? As I type this seems a long way to travel..

saabsaab · 27-09-2021 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946062#Comment_117946062

To see if it has obliterated whatever you wanted to hide. maybe?

27-09-2021 6:24pm

How much does breeze block weight? A Dream of Death says

Dr Marc Taccoen conducted the 2008 post-mortem examination following the exhumation.........

and

He said the indications were that the blows were aimed in a

sideways direction. However, the fatal blow was sustained when a heavy object

– likely a concrete breeze block – was dropped directly onto Sophie’s skull

from a height. Most likely, the block would have been held above the attacker’s

head and then dropped with force onto the head of the woman lying stunned

and bloodied on the ground.

crackcrack30 · 27-09-2021 6:24pm

Just had a look on google earth...... (Walked the lane on earth also) Amazingly rural setting... not somewhere that you would stumble upon.

Her property in dunmanus west has spectactular views over the bay to the north over dunmanus west (common with one other land owner)...

can be found on landdirect.ie... What bay is this? not bantry?

27-09-2021 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946464#Comment_117946464

I don't know. It seemed to me the only definite evidence of homicide was the concrete block.

Her own hair in her hands, her own DNA under her nails. No evidence of anyone else at the scene or in the house.

The block being dropped onto her head is the one act that only another person could do.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2021 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946758#Comment_117946758

I get you. I think even a setup like Sherlock Holmes and the Problem of Thor Bridge wouldnt suffice here.

Pushing the block down means it could have been done by someone without the strength to pick it up.

Alternatively they picked it up to take in their brutal 'handiwork' but they run a risk of forensics transference.

jimwallace197 · 27-09-2021 7:14pm

So heres what we are left with.

1) Woman on our own in a foreign country ventures outside alone in the middle of the night to meet the murderer. I think we can count on one hand the amount of people a woman would do that for, a GARD, a fireman, a friend, a lover or someone local who was a friend to hers or she was well acquainted with.

2) Crime scene was either engineered in a way that the killer would have known what he was doing or knew exactly how to clean up a crime scene like this. So, how many people back then would have known how to leave zero dna evidence or fingerprints at a crime scene like this? (one of the most violent in modern irish history), very very few id imagine. So either an exceptional hitman or a GARD. Although in relation to the hitman, its highly unlikely he would have killed her in a manner like this, much easier to shoot or stab & even better from a distance.

3) Disposal & loss of key pieces of evidence. Almost to an unbelievable degree, gate, wine bottle, diaries to name a few. Loss & disposal of evidence on this scale never heard of before in relation to any case on this island.

4) Framing by the Gards of a fish out of water and easy individual to pin the murder on. Ian Bailey (on top of that English too). No better way to distract from who the real perpetrator was.

5) Gave the case to an incompetent and out of his depth detective who is embedded in garda culture and has been one for all of his life. (Dwyer) No better man to go along with his superiors narrative.

6) STDP was known to complain quite frequently when she was in Ireland about many things. To think she wouldnt have complained about Alfie Lyons or Leo Bolgers drug operations, parties and frequent use of drugs is incredulous in the extreme. If she was complaining about this, it would have brought her into direct contact with the GARDS.

7) MOTIVE. People talk about her husbands motive, an ex's motive, alfies motive, but nobody is talking about the motive of the elephant in the room. The GARDS motive, if it came out that one of their own did this, it would be devastating, it would impact on how gards are looked at by nearly every citizen in this country. A proper organisation would have been set up to investigate their illegal and corrupt behaviors. This is something none of them wanted. As well as this, they are known as one of the most secretive police forces in the world, can you imagine if they are then having to be held to account for their actions, would a turkey vote for xmas?

Its clear as day, the most obvious suspect in this case is a Gard

saabsaab · 27-09-2021 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946758#Comment_117946758

The phrase 'pulling your hair out' can mean rage or extreme distress.

tibruit · 27-09-2021 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945878#Comment_117945878

Ah yes .....the old football analogy. There`s only one problem.....you can`t score goals if you are not allowed to play the game. In this case the evidence would have been presented to a jury and they would decide who was scoring and who wasn`t.

Thespoofer · 27-09-2021 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946863#Comment_117946863

Or if the murderer had her caught by the hair and dragged her around she could have grabbed her own hair to try and free it from his/her hand ....

mamboozle · 27-09-2021 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946916#Comment_117946916

I regret as much as you that the DPP didn't bring charges, but for a different reason. It wasn't Ian Bailey that the DPP was helping out, he was doing the Gardai/State a big favour, we would all have seen the conclusions he came to played out in public. It would have been embarrassing.

tibruit · 27-09-2021 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947084#Comment_117947084

The DPP is like Dunphy making a prediction that Man City are better than Liverpool. And when Bailey did come out and play a couple of games, he got whipped.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2021 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947103#Comment_117947103

You seem very confused about the role of the DPP.

Why do you think we have a DPP?

tibruit · 27-09-2021 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946958#Comment_117946958

This is the most logical explanation. Sophie answered her door, was confronted by the killer who grabbed her by her hair and dragged her outside. She would have held her hair with one hand and probably grabbed the door with the other. As she was dragged out she would have pulled the door closed behind her as she tried to hold on.

Loafing Oaf · 27-09-2021 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946836#Comment_117946836

MOTIVE. People talk about her husbands motive, an ex's motive, alfies motive, but nobody is talking about the motive of the elephant in the room. The GARDS motive, if it came out that one of their own did this, it would be devastating, it would impact on how gards are looked at by nearly every citizen in this country. A proper organisation would have been set up to investigate their illegal and corrupt behaviors. This is something none of them wanted. As well as this, they are known as one of the most secretive police forces in the world, can you imagine if they are then having to be held to account for their actions, would a turkey vote for xmas?

That's the motive for the cover-up. What's the motive for the Garda who supposedly committed the murder in the first place?

mamboozle · 27-09-2021 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947103#Comment_117947103

You can't hide behind the statute of limitations in a murder trial and even if you'd had the likes of Judge Moran presiding it would have been a jury making the decision. It would have been a serious crises.

Thespoofer · 27-09-2021 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947119#Comment_117947119

Did JT have any 'hair pulling ' injuries from IB when he assaulted her in the past ?...

saabsaab · 27-09-2021 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946958#Comment_117946958

Yes that makes much more sense. Ties in neatly with 'the indications were that the blows were aimed in asideways direction.'

One hand holding/dragging her by her hair the other beating her.

mamboozle · 27-09-2021 8:45pm

@tibruit

Might come in handy;

tinytobe · 27-09-2021 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946836#Comment_117946836

As far as I recall I always mentioned to focus on the motive, and that from a financial perspective and possibly from a sexual perspective.

At this point we all won't recover any new evidence or revelation, 25 years passed is simply too long, - the only thing we can do is some motive based profiling of the case. Regardless of what we all think that could have happened, we can't dispute that her husband Daniel Toscan du Plantier didn't have motive to get Sophie out of the way - he had actually a very very strong financial motive. Sure, that doesn't prove anything, but the motive is indeed very strong. How he could have hired a hitman, - we don't know. That's pure speculation or others would call it phantasies....

The corrupt Gard's motivation would have been the drug ring and protecting that business which may have paid him well.

It's quite possible that the crime scene was engineered or thoroughly cleaned and the house searched for any possible incriminating evidence.

The Gard had to live with the calculated risk that Sophie kept one or more diaries or had even photographs of drug traffickers taken and would have gone through the house carefully, room by room. That happening while Sophie was already lying outside and murdered would have had some considerable risk to the Gard getting caught. However the Gard could always have said, that he was "already investigating the murder" and nobody had any doubts to his side of the story.

Regarding your statement, why a gun wasn't used to kill Sophie and that from a distance. I'd say the Gard would most likely only have had access to his own pistol or other guns / pistols at the Garda station, if the planning was more short term. - and I believe it was short term planning as Sophie's trip sort of came out of the blue to most locals who knew her.

If the Gard would have used his own gun, they'd trace the bullet to his gun or to one registered to the Garda station, - so, that's not a choice. If it didn't point to him it would have pointed to the Gards in general, and the corruption case would have gotten more and more solid. Getting another gun and preferably a silencer, not easy when there is just a couple of days to plan this.

Firing a gun without a silencer would have undoubtedly raised the curiosity of the neighbours.

Driving there, most people would have more likely remembered the Garda car than an inconspicuous blue Ford Fiesta.

Maybe just by accident new evidence turns up, or old pictures somewhere, but I think that's very very unlikely.

27-09-2021 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946863#Comment_117946863

According to Jim Sheridan, Sophie may have already had a mildly psychotic incident earlier in the day. The way he put it she was disturbed by her vision of the 'White Lady', basically an unusually shaped spray of sea water. Where he got that information from I don't know, I presume it must be Yvonne Ungerer. But it does indicate perhaps a sensitive and fragile state of mind on that day.

It's also documented that there was a disturbed atmosphere in the area that night, dogs barking out of character, etc.

It's not impossible that Sophie went out alone that night, to look at the moon, to listen to the night, and she felt or saw something that frightened her, enough to make her run down the front field, through the briars, her terror increasing as she ran until she was in a psychotic and hysterical state when she reached the road and ran into the wire.

If it can't be proven and verified that her contact with the block was caused by someone else lifting and dropping it onto her, then a psychotic episode during which she fell hard against it can not be ruled out.

The Dyatlov Pass incident, link below, is an example where a group of young hikers ran out of their tent, some without footwear, into snow and freezing conditions. None survived. The reason they fled is unknown. Recent theories suggest they feared an avalanche, but earlier theories included murder by KGB agents, a blast from a Russian weapons test, or a sudden hysteria and terror.

Much like this case, no one knows what happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

tinytobe · 27-09-2021 9:00pm

I think the Ungerers had nothing really to do with this. The old man originally from Alsace in France passed away a couple of years ago. It seems his children are running the house, renting it out for weddings, etc.... It's further out west, but north of the lighthouse.

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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