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Varadkar hits the right note for Landlords

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  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove


    The political parties really are a bunch of spanners. Its echo chamber stuff where virtue trumps logic and renters suffer the most by the LL being pushed out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Look at the reaction on here when a TD comes out and says we need to consider LL?

    Political parties are feeding the public, if people actually believe the best result is to have no LL then they should quit complaining about no rental properties. You can't have one without the other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I have no issue believing that certain people in government are buffoons who simply don't comprehend what they are doing. Others, I would opine do no care.

    Then we have someone like Varadkar. I do not see a spanner when I look at him. Rather, I see a very intelligent man who knows precisely what he is doing, and it is his ilk that I fear are ruling the roost.

    We often accuse the state of incompetence because we look at what its operatives do, and ask ourselves how they can be so myopic in their actions as to not see the harm that they cause. If the state were in the business of protecting the interests of the Irish people, this would be true. If, however, those who run the state have motivations removed from the public interest, then their actions seem less like incompetence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I met Varadkar many times and knew his father. He is far from a buffoon.

    The problem a lot of people seem to forget is that people in Ireland will do nothing without money involved, some voters think that companies should be rolling around Ireland working and making no money so they can live the life of luxury. It doesn't work that way.

    Everyone has to make a living and a profit. If the plan of some parties is to push LL do make zero profit then they will find no landlords in Ireland, simple as that. Which will have a huge impact on companies like google etc who bring in people on contract for a few years and then they move on. Someone doesn't want to buy a house in Ireland if they only plan on staying for 2-3 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Oh don't misunderstand me; I'm no bearded lefty. I'm not criticising what Varadkar is saying in this instance as I have no issue with landlords. In fact, I have rented privately from a few small landlords who were ethical and honest men. There is nothing at all wrong with making a profit.

    I wasn't referring to Varadkar as a buffoon at all. As I said, he's not a foolish man at all, but what are his motivations? Mostly likely, it's simply his own political ambitions, but the office that he will soon hold again should be an office dedicated to what in the interest of the Irish people. When I say that, I do not mean "free stuff" or "tax the rich". Rather, I mean that the goal of any ethical government should be what is in the interests of the tax-paying, private citizen and the inheritance of future generations. The best way to do that, would opine, is to maintain a society that rewards hard-work, wise decisions and personal responsibility.

    The current governance of the Irish state (and of many western states) seems to me to be hell-bent on establishing Ireland as yet one more cog in a neo-liberal / globalist economic unit where the population are merely wealth-generating assets. I won't pretend to have all the answers, but this is just how things seem to me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Basically no one is saying landlords should make zero profit though?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I agree with you, I don't have all the answers either but I do think a lot of the rubbish at the moment from the opposition is populist nonsense which if implemented would cripple the country. Some people, not saying you, just want to hear what they want without thinking of what the consequences are.

    Its like the ghost estate a few years back, everyone shouting to knock them down. I always thought that was idiotic but the people wanted it. Now we are crying out for houses after we knocked loads. Really it is baffling. Maybe the government should have know better but for a lot of them it is a popularity contest



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No but we don’t let people starve. Stupid argument.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Really? I think you should read around the web because at the moment every LL in Ireland is a sc*mbag and the lowest of the low. We are supposed to believe a bad tenant does not exist



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,889 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I think what people have a problem with is increasing rent annually linked to inflation, when the original cost of the house (mortgage) won't be increasing at the same rate. It's profiteering.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,101 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    If you are renting out a luxury property worth 1m why can't you profiteer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    If you read around the web you'll find people saying everything imaginable. The fact is that no one in mainstream politics is saying landlords should make zero profit and as the title of this thread suggests we have the Tanaiste (who holds more sway in government than any other Tanaiste before him) explicitly saying the opposite.

    I get that everyone feels hard done by but landlords on this forum take that to a new level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    People have a problem with 2 identical properties with vastly different rent caps, simply because of an accident of history. If 2 identical properties go up for rent at €2k per month and €1k per month respectively (due to rent caps), how is the LL of the €1k property profiteering by applying an inflationary increase?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Its funny. The arguments jump from the landlord is a business he/she can suck it up when a tenant doesn't pay. But when its pricing increases the landlord is a charity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I think that nobody can ever have the solutions to problems such as a housing crisis. However, there are quite a lot who will claim to have it, and some of them have drunk their own kool-aid. It is the latter that I fear the most.

    Part of the problem, as I see it, is that it is virtually impossible to even have a discussion on it. Look at what gets said on this very forum. "That's a stupid argument", "You don't know what you're on about" or other such vituperative language serves no end other than to create a row and stall progress. Furthermore, there are too many proscribed topics such as immigration or welfare, and those who attempt to raise these very salient issues are often dismissed at best or outright hunted by twitter mobs at the worst, no matter how well made their arguments may be. How can any problem be solved if cannot even be candidly discussed?

    I'm probably more cynical than the average soul, but I see little about the future that gives me warm and fuzzy feelings about the lives that my nieces and nephews will be growing up to "enjoy".



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    Mortgage aside, don't all the other costs associated with owning, renting out and managing a property also increase as inflation goes up? A lot of trades people, builders etc are whacking up their rates far in excess of inflation - should landlords just absorb those costs?



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Rents have increased 100 per cent in some cases in the last ten years.

    Any inflationary costs are have been well covered over the medium term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    That ten year point well trotted out here was the lowest point for rents since 06 and taxes where lash on now amounting to more than 50%.

    Trades since pandemic have increased 30% + if you can get them



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Fair enough, it's a comparison to the low point of the market.

    My point is rents have outstripped inflation by a huge margin over the course of many renters adult lives.

    That rents should now be allowed increase by more than the CPI to cover landlords in the event they have to pay for a tradesperson isn't a valid argument in my view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,551 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It is not just trades it's also regulation. You now have to certify the electrical connection in the house every 5 years, it now a 500-1k cost depending on 2-4 bed property. In a he next 12-18 months I expect that a media licience will be imposed on houses it will cost 150-200/ year. I expect that bin will be.imposed on LL as well. Other costs will increase as well. Redecorating in the case if tenant misbehaviour could now be 5k plus plus.

    The problem is all these price freezes punish LL who are not price gouging but they then are encouraged to increase rental costs as fast as possible

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Yes I agree that "fair" landlords have been hard done by.

    But at a time of record high rents, the idea that landlords need increases above the rate of inflation is predominately (entirely?) one floated by landlords looking to justify their own interests.

    And look I mean that's understandable, everyone wants to further their own interests, it's how politics works.

    I feel almost obliged to disagree with people on here trying to justify these ideas as somehow being common sense and almost in societies best interests as a whole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I knew a landlord with an apartment next door to another rented one. Identical in every other way except one of them was in rag order and the other was in fantastic condition. The rent was locked at less than €1000 for one and is €1600 for the other one. Guess which one was locked on the lower rent? The nicer one.

    I think he had a reason to feel hard done by.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    No one is saying that anyone neds increases per se. people are entitled to charge market rent as a general rule for any product or service. The complaint is made that rather than increasing supply to match demand and keep rents at an appropriate level, the methods used are choking off supply, locking some rents at an arbitrarily low level and allowing other rents to be higher than the would otherwise be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,101 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    For the LLs, its not politics its economics.

    What political is the Govt failure to deliver housing. They've abdicated responsibility. No ones voted them out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    For the landlords it's self-interest and I don't mean that in a whingeing "landlords are selfish and mean" way. Simply that they are advocating policies which would suit them financially.

    Everyone does it - from retailers, to the hospitality industry, to the construction industry.

    But let's not pretend what's best for landlords (or any other interest group) is best for society or Just Common Sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    That's a valid point and certainly a lot of truth in it.

    But the post I originally replied to was arguing LLs needed increases above the rate of inflation to compensate them for the additional cost of hiring a tradesperson which is just the usual type of landlord whinging which is unfortunately very common on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Yes I absolutely agree some landlords have been hard done by and the nature of RPZs is that generally the LLs who lost out are/were the decent ones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove


    Is it common sense to push all the small LL's out of the market. All the regulations and below market rent catches look great for a tenant until they find out later they have no where to rent if they have to move. Occupancy rates are much higher in rented accommodation...the government created this crisis



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    Well I do agree that the Government shoulders the bulk of the responsibility and they have at times tried to scapegoat private landlords.

    Having said that, the government's inaction has driven rents to historic highs which is very much beneficial to private landlords so swings and roundabouts I suppose.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Most of the comments I've seen seem to be focusing entirely on private property owners, and how the rent is their income. Reasonably fair thing to be talking about.

    What do people think of the REIT situation in Ireland, the fact that giant US / International investment funds are buying and renting out huge swathes of housing, and that those companies are getting specific tax breaks here in Ireland to attract them.

    There is a TON of Irish money going to foreign millionaires / billionaires who have invested in these funds. I would say the tax breaks for those sorts of entities, and the prevalence of their property ownership in the market is likely one of the primary causes of the current rental crisis.

    These tax breaks were intentionally put in place by Irish politicians who live in the pockets of these giant multinationals. They aren't trying to protect normal people who are landlords, they're trying to protect these giant entities.

    Almost no party, Sinn fein included, had anything good to say about the recent developments in Berlin surrounding companies involved in the rental market there. Reason being? that's who they're trying to protect right now.



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