What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Are you calling african americans mongrels?

You use the term 'race' several times. When you use that term, what are you referring to?

So you support All Lives Matter, not Black Lives Matter right?

You may have missed my earlier question - you use the term 'race' several times. What are you referring to when you say race?

I'm not so sure about that TBH....in Ireland anyway, I don't remember ever seeing the party manifesto promoting the benefits of multiculture, and increasing migrant / asylum seeker Nrs. Maybe AFTER the election,in order to appease the EU etc. you will see plans to increase nrs. And from ordinary people, I've never heard of any wish to increase these Nrs, on the contrary, the main thrust of any immigration conversation that I've heard is that we should take care of our own first, and then see what can be done for the migrants. For sure, theres lots of very angry people out there, because of the plan to give an immigrant a key to his own front door, within 4 mths of arrival,,,,when we have 30-40 year olds still living with their parents, because they simply cannot afford to rent their own place, never mind get on the housing ladder

I agree with all of that. I think my only concern is people overly focus on Islam, as if the problem is the particular characteristics of the ethnic groups mass migrating into the country. If only they were more neoliberal, it would be okay. Whereas it's neoliberalism that is creating the problem of mass migration in the first place.

If we look at Northern Ireland, we see the strife that occurs from mass migration into Ireland of another European people (very, very, very closely connected to the Irish) who are also Christians, and no doubt highly skilled, hard working, law abiding, etc. When it comes down to it, the formation of a foreign overclass is even more dangerous for the indigenous people than the formation of a foreign underclass. Islam has it's flaws, but its only a problem for Europeans because the political leadership facilitates mass migration into Europe.

The Northern Irish conflict goes back very long in history. James the 1st and the plantation as far as I know.

As far as I know they have tried in history to consider making Ireland into a secular country like France, to solve the protestant/catholic issue. Wasn't that Wolfe Tone and the United Irishmen? Not certain anymore? However that attempt failed.

I don't know if the Celts were ever to be seen historically as one people. Plus there was also the Norman invasion in Ireland and in the end, the Normans did to some or other degree assimilate into the country.

Overall Europe needs immigrants especially to fill job shortages and gaps, however controlled immigration not masses of Syrians just arriving and expected to be fed by the welfare system, not learning the language or contributing. I am not saying Ireland here, but France, Germany and Sweden are hotbeds for breeding radicalism due to their open policy welfare system.

I've read this once somewhere before same as about the Picts and the Scots.

However some not every user might agree with your description of the plantation as "a sort of homecoming".......

Wibbs! Welcome back. This is the most you have posted on Boards.ie since the change. Are you over it now? 😁

- it's a majority on a single poll.

Yep. You are correct, from the poll, the majority of Irish people want the government to take in more afghan refugees than they have committed to. Other posters appear not to be able to understand this.

-Ok let's agree with your position

Your agreement isn't needed: its the results of the poll. Nor is it my "position": its the results of the poll.

-The same "most Irish people" want the state to not take in more than 1000 Afghan refugees

The Irish government has committed to taking in 230 Afgan refugees. The poll found that most Irish people want the government to take in more than that. You are fixated on the figure of 1000 for some reason: the subject of the poll was on the number of 230 that the government has committed to taking in.

-And even with the Journal's poll cherrypicked selection bias..

Give evidence to back up your opinion that the poll was biased.

Do you understand what the word "predominantly" means?

I do not and ever never advocated open borders and in fact am of the view that Ireland should only let in a relatively small number of immigrants per year. There is a global refugee crisis centering on the Middle East but we are not responsible for the after-effects of other people's wars.

For sure there are classifications of ethnic groups, but I wouldn’t be relying on companies like 23andme to make your point. The company themselves aren’t racist, no, but their database is primarily Eurocentric, and their algorithms are constantly being tweaked, so while one test results you may belong to the ethnic group of ‘British and Irish’, the next update may change your test results completely -

In any case, you’re conflating ethnicity with nationality, and it’s true while we don’t have the baggage of colonialists, we do have the influence of being colonised, and invaded, many times throughout our history (I still remember my history teacher lamenting the fact that we were never conquered by the Romans 😁), and then there were the Vikings who settled and intermarried and all the rest of it. Ireland as a nation if you want to put it in those terms is far younger than the US, Australia or Canada.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, most immigrants who immigrate here are from the UK, according to figures from the CSO. It’s true they have little interest in integration and they’re certainly not here for our money. You’re again conflating two very different things - immigrants and asylum seekers. It’s considerably more difficult to integrate into Irish society when you’re holed up in direct provision and there are considerable barriers to gaining employment that doesn’t amount to being unable to afford a basic living standard in post-Celtic Tiger Ireland. There were barely any immigrants before Celtic Tiger because there was hardly employment to be got in Ireland for anyone! The unemployment figures have since skyrocketed because of employers being able to employ immigrants at far less cost.

This means we really DON’T have anything like “a rich stable homeland”, for anyone, not because of “NGOs and their brainwashed followers”, but because of the ethnic Irish who are as Charlie Haughey put it back in the 80’s - living well beyond our means. Asylum seekers or economic immigrants or whatever way you want to put it, are only a scapegoat for a small minority of people to lay the blame on, when they aren’t at all to blame.

It is successive Irish Governments who are elected by the Irish people who anyone should be pointing fingers at as being responsible for the current economic climate in Ireland where we were given grants from the EU to improve our infrastructure, squandered it on vanity projects, and lived the high life for a few years (God be with the days when you’d be walking out of the bathroom in the club and some lad would make a bee-line for you with a can of cheap deodorant… away t’fcuk! 😂), but we all thought the party could go on forever. It’s completely unfair to blame immigrants for our own Governments failures. We elected them, so who’s ultimately responsible? It’s not immigrants, or asylum seekers, or anyone else who comes here in the hope of making a better life for themselves and their families.

To my comments on 23andme, of course it matters because you were using yourself as an example of a member of an ethnic group according to your likely ancestry as reported by 23andme. I’m agreeing with you that of course there are classifications of groups according to their ethnicity, but I wouldn’t use companies like 23andme to make that point is all for the reasons I suggested.

I’m not confusing a nation with a State, I know the difference, and that’s why I made the point - Ireland in the same context as you gave the examples of the US, Canada and Australia would be much younger than all three. I wasn’t using the Vikings as a tool to show how good multiculturalism is either. I’ve already stated that multiculturalism is neither inherently good or bad. I was using the Vikings by way of suggesting that because they mixed it up with the locals, there’s bound to be plenty of genetic evidence of same which influences ethnicity, quite apart from the influence any group of migrants has on culture. Goes back to the whole idea of the Romans and why they never conquered Ireland - because they didn’t have to, they had trade links between Ireland (Hibernia as it was at the time) and Britain and they were rather civilised about it, unlike the Ulster planters who weren’t - same ethnicity, different cultures.

What I was talking about is exactly what you were referring to - Ireland, and your ideas that we’re a rich country. You never made any comparisons to any other countries so I didn’t either. Ireland on it’s own is swimming in a sea of debt for starters. I’m sure you’re familiar with the expression “all fur coat and no knickers”, well that’s Ireland - we have the external appearance of being a wealthy country, as long as you’re prepared to ignore the fact that it’s all for show, but don’t be surprised that when people hear Ireland is a wealthy country, they’re going to imagine a better life for themselves, at which point you’ll have lost the right to complain that migrants are coming because they smell money. According to you we can well afford them, what are you getting so bent out of shape about?

I’m not even going to bother addressing what are literally cherry picked statistics from the CSO link that you provided, but reading it doesn’t suggest anything interesting at all. You’re hardly expecting full employment among immigrants? There’s not even full employment among highly skilled, highly educated Irish graduates, so I don’t expect immigrants regardless of their level of education and skills to fare much better in terms of employment than Irish people themselves?

For what it’s worth though, seeing as you imagine immigrants are taking us for fools, I’d to laugh at this recent case where an asylum seeker was seeking a judicial review of his case. You’ll notice that the Judge in the case, while borrowing from an example in Christianity, is no fool when it comes to applying the law appropriately, and even takes time out to reprimand the State (para. 9) -

Apart from the fact that one could classify ANY social policies as experiments, the fact is that to suggest any European countries have changed significantly over the last TWO decades even, is ridiculous. Even the example you gave of Denmark, it hasn’t changed significantly. Migrants weren’t welcome in 2001 either, and they’re not any more welcome now. The reason a left-wing party are passing anti-immigration laws is because they figure it’ll appeal to the voting demographics they claim to represent - the working class. It’s also in line with their ideals of a “secular” democracy and keeping Denmark Danish, precisely because they failed to live up to their own ideals for integration of immigrants into Danish society. Multiculturalism doesn’t create parallel societies, it’s still all the one society, comprised of multiple cultures all distinct from each other, as per your definition above -

What are you a mongral ?