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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Neither do I, but neither do I buy that the vast majority are that bothered about wearing them in shops, healthcare settings or on public transport. They are a bit of a nuisance but not on the level of sacrificing a limb or your first born that some seem to believe they are. But then on a thread about restrictions, at this stage for chronic complainers there isn`t much left to complain about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    They have to extend them beyond the 22nd of October anyway.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    They don't want to declare a 'freedom day' because it sounds ridiculous. Daily Mail tabloid shíte.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Nyero


    So that is the reason for masks in retail then?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Seamus, would you ever entertain the possibility that those emergency powers could be kept in place indefinitely? In February of this year Joe Biden extended the National Emergency that was declared in response to the 9/11 attacks, 20 years after that emergency was declared. It is not uncommon for emergency powers to be kept in place long after an emergency has been declared and/or ended.


    I actually don't see those emergency powers ever being repealed by the Irish Government. I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. And I don't see the Coronavirus Act ever being (fully) repealed by the UK Government either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it's to somewhat curtail the transmission of that virus that's doing the rounds? Maybe it's a means of controlling the population?

    I'll tell what isn't the reason - to avoid the suggestion that Boris Johnson got it right four months ago. That's just silly.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They don't have to. Neither Norway nor Denmark declared a 'freedom day'. They just quietly lifted all of the restrictions, including mask wearing. I think it's important to add 'including mask wearing' because I've noticed that people are starting to talk about 'normal apart from a bit of mask wearing (and vaccine passports)', which isn't what I consider normal to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I don't think they actually updated it. They're just hoping no one calls them on it. 385 is specifically for indoor dining. I'm pretty certain all the stuff they came out with in regards passes for cinemas, theatres, outdoors etc, are all just guidelines rather than actual laws.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And I wonder will it just be in retail that they will be required. It's very vague. First of all, there's no guarantee that anything will change on the 22nd. It's not set in stone. And then there's the whole question of whether private businesses will insist that customers wear masks. Will they no longer be required in banks, solicitors' offices, in courts, at driving centres and while doing the test, in the bookies, in libraries, in bookshops (are they considered retail, or is it just supermarkets?), in restaurants, in pubs/bars, when viewing a house? I could well see the RSA continuing to insist that people wear them, for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    "...there's no guarantee that anything will change on the 22nd..." There have been no guarantees of anything since March last year...except that, no matter what happens, people will still find something to moan about on this thread.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,050 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    We should still declare it a freedom day, just to annoy the old farts in Leinster House



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,050 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It's hard to drink a pint through a mask, and it's hard to remember a mask when drinking, when it comes to picking out a new pair of shoes, however, a mask doesn't interrupt the process too much



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    That's an S.I. as opposed to an Act. I recall there was some fudgery and arguments going on previously about the extent of Ministers' powers to pass certain provisions using S.Is, and therefore without a vote. But in this case the dates of 9th October and a maximum 3 month extension are written in the Act. To modify or introduce a new Act requires approval of the oireachtas.

    @Gortanna wrote:

    Seamus, would you ever entertain the possibility that those emergency powers could be kept in place indefinitely? In February of this year Joe Biden extended the National Emergency that was declared in response to the 9/11 attacks, 20 years after that emergency was declared. It is not uncommon for emergency powers to be kept in place long after an emergency has been declared and/or ended.

    The U.S. is a different country, with a different kind of legislature and a very different political culture. The bipartisan nature of their system means that a President could sign a decree that every citizen must eat a sandwich made of faeces once a month, and the supporters of that faction will applaud and comply. We don't have that here. We have "party faithful", but not to the cultist levels they do in the U.S.

    We also don't have a single point of power that can extend or modify laws unilaterally.

    Is there a universe in which the government might attempt to retain these powers? Of course there is. But they'd be ousted in short time because we have a system of democracy that is actually representative, and people won't tolerate the existence of emergency powers when there's no emergency.

    The fact that our Government is a tense coalition also means that at least one party is waiting for a good opportunity to pull the plug, and would rather make a grab for more votes than hold onto some very useless emergency powers to close restaurants and pubs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,251 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    They updated it on 4th September , SI 452

    The Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (Covid19) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (S.I. No. 217 of 2021) are amended –

    (a) in Regulation 1, by the substitution, in paragraph (2), of “9th

    day of October 2021” for “6th day of September 2021”,


    The journal article is littered with errors regarding legislation. The SI that allows the minister to extend the legislation expires on November 9th and can be extended once for a 3 month period, therefore all powers lapse on 9th February.

    There's 2 instruments here,

    1. The emergency powers that the minister has to bring in legislation, that lapses Novmeber 9th but can be renewed until 9th February and not after.

    2. The SI regarding covid certs and indoor hospitality was due to lapse on 9th October and has now been extended by the minister as per his powers in point 1 (yet to see anywhere except the journal report it & no published SI yet). The journal saying it could be extended once is incorrect.

    It gets a bit messy then with the cert coming to an end on 22nd but the ability to reintroduce it there until January, I'd expect another SI to probably take effect from 22nd to reflect it. No idea why they needed to muddy the waters.

    The easy way to do it would have been to just extend to 22nd October and after that the powers in place until 9th February would have been sufficient should anything else be needed in the future until then. Doesn't make sense to me to have both extended

    Post edited by stephenjmcd on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    But how much nicer would it to try on those shoes without a mask?

    I look forward to a time when i can fully understand someone who isn't wearing a mask or wearing a mask and hiding behind plexi glass...



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The hint is in the word essential. As in by definition, "absolutely necessary, extremely important" as opposed to non essential which is neither.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,050 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not a whole lot, if at all... I look forward to a time when you understand things as well

    Plexi-glass isn't a great hiding place either



  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Nyero


    Hint "non essential"

    Are masks required in"non essential"

    As in not absolutely necessary. As in not extremely important.

    Like a flower shop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    When will they be lifting the requirements to prove vaccination in cinemas does anyone know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If they are shops that were not classified as essential then I would not see any reason why masks should be required. For those that have been classified as essential, same as health care services and public transport I can understand why they will be after the 22nd Oct. But I don`t believe that is your arguement on mask wearing. Far as I can see you think they should not be worn anywhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Do you want to try on shoes or just lick them ?

    Plexi glass is also usually see through. At least any I have come across as regards customer service was



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    There you go again with your insinuations that I don't understand.

    Funny that you didn't seem to enjoy being called out as not the brightest out there but yet have no issues sending it around yourself.

    You just seem incapable of having a normal debate without descending into whatever it is you call your posting style.

    Your complete and utter lack of tact or ability to actually hold a valid argument is astounding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Either my point went deliberately over your head (which itself wouldn't surprise me) or you're just in for the **** stirring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Nyero


    My view is that masks in shops will offer little value in terms of controlling spread when pubs etc. are fully open.

    You and others are saying that they are to continue in retail because its essential that vulnerable people have access to essential shops etc.

    It does appear though that masks will be required in non essential retail like flower shops, toy shops etc. which does not correlate with the we all need to wear masks because vulnerable people need to access essential services argument



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Neither actually. I could not make rhyme nor reason of your post.

    How people would hide behind see through plexiglass I have no idea, and other than wanting to taste shoes while trying then on, I didn`t see what difference a face mask would make.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What I am saying is I can understand the reason for them in essential shops. Same as I can for them in health care settings and on public transport because they are all services essential, for not simply the most vulnerable, but those that cannot avail of a vaccines for various reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,579 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Hang on, so are we keeping covid certs for indoor dining? Not seen this reported at all



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  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Nyero


    You keep putting forward this reason for masks in retail, but is this just your own theory or have the government / nphet come out and given this as the reason?



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