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Can a business refuse hard cash? 💶💰

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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,012 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Going to bank once a week is still going to take up a minimum of an hour of time. There are also costs of buying coin if you intend to give change like 99.999% of businesses do.

    Going on your previous posts, you had an appalling merchant agreement for card payments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,311 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Any place that only takes card payments wont get my business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,012 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Any place that only takes card payments has already decided that the cost of handling cash is too high so is not going to miss your business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    If you order a coffee, they make you a coffee then surely a debt is created?



  • Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Heart Break Kid


    This all accurate, I think in practice they do not tell a business if they've accessed the information and wait to see if the business will be upfront about all transactions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,012 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No.

    Even the cases of having consumed the coffee somewhere that states card only does not actually create a debt in the normal way - this has already been gone through in detail on this thread.

    But if you insist on paying cash for a takeout coffee in somewhere that doesn't take cash, you just won't get the coffee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,777 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    I can't remember the last time I used cash. Roofer called out and I paid him by Revolut. Chimney sweep called out today and he had a sum up terminal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,939 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Simple,If these "hipster type cafes don't want your cash and your buisness" go down the street to the next one (and they are plenty) who will gladly accept your custom and your cash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭martingriff




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,085 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    You'd have to consume the coffee before a debt is created



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,085 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I had a standard merchant agreement. I was with several companies over several years.


    The real problem for me & my business is that an average transaction could be €350. I have to buy a shower and materials & pay VAT out of the €350. I might get a quarter of this myself but I obviously have to pay merchant fees on the whole amount. The end fee I pay could be over 10% of my profit. Some showers cost close to a thousand euro but the profit after fitting could be 10% of this. Paying €7.50 (.75%) plus €20 per month machine rental is nuts.


    For my type of business cards have the highest fees. Cheque fees work out far cheaper. Bank transfer costs pennies but cash is totally 100% free of fees. Cash can be lodged into saving & credit card account totally fee free. I rarely need to lodge cash at all in any account because I pay my suppliers in cash when I have it. I buy X amount of showers and hand over €4k or €5k in cash.


    For some businesses cash is the only way to get paid without paying fees to banks or merchants. This isn’t the case for most bigger businesses but it is the case for a lot of small businesses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,311 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Yeah, I don't care if they miss my business or not. its not a protest by me, I just prefer not to give them my money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭Zhane


    Very rarely carry cash. Or even my cards these days. Pay with my phone. And actively avoid places who don’t take contactless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Lodging is a few minutes.

    You either bag it and drop it into the Dropbox or for small lodgements you put into the machine.

    Doesn't take more than a few minutes especially as you would know the less busy times if you did it regularly.


    Coin is ordered by email in almost all cases. Simply go to the business desk and collect.


    Whilst banks will always charge for lodgement, they tend not to charge that often if getting coin.


    I don't think any cash lodging business uses the regular cashier desks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Safe drop 24/7

    Or as I say above. A couple of minutes for lodging machine or drop safe within the bank.

    It's a minor cost and minor inconvenience.


    I certainly will not be refusing cash anytime soon. - I do prefer cards as it's cheaper, but very much welcome cash too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yes, if there's a debt, an offer of legal tender cannot be refused.

    But most consumer purchases don't involve a debt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    We always need to have some cash handy for things like the coalman and milkman. They don't take card. I don't mind in the slightest and prefer to pay for a small job by, for example, a plumber in cash than write a cheque.

    We're using less cash but it's far from gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,579 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    What’s a cheque?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    A thing to facilitate payment that I find very handy about once a year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    What are these "cheques" of which you speak? I haven't written a cheque since (checks stub on old but still unfinished chequebook at back of desk drawer) 2006. Cheques are not the alternative to cash nowadays.

    Today I bought The Big Issue from a street vendor. It was a card transaction.

    I'm genuinely struggling to recall the last time I used cash to purchase goods of any kind. I used cash to pay for a small job on my car a few weeks back because, at the time I came to pick it up, the guy's card reader was offline, and I preferred not to pay a surcharge to use a credit card. Last time before that I paid in cash for a service, I can't recall. It was probably paying cash on a bus because I had forgotten or mislaid my SmartRider card.

    If I think about it, the only thing I use cash for with any regularity is to donate to street charity collections. And there are many fewer of these nowadays, because they don't raise much money, because people don't carry cash.

    OK, I'm living in Australia, where the move away from cash may be further advanced than in other places. But don't imagine that, in time, it can't happen like that where you are too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,085 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I still get around 5 cheques per week from clients. Obviously they would mostly be older clients. They are definitely dying out but not quite dead yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,579 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    Obviously my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough.

    I know what a cheque is, but I don't see what it has to do with a business refusing to accept cash in the OP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    My teenagers have revolut cards tied to my revolut account. Handier than them carrying (and losing) cash - card in the back of the phone case. They get their pocket money via revolut.



  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    I suspect that you are wrong about personal funds Tax Evasion becoming impossible. I suggest that if the authorities were on course to eliminate it, the judgements would be kept quiet. The current "leaking" or reporting these judgements is probably seen as a deterrent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Back at you.


    I was replying to a post about paying a chimney sweep etc. Apologies if we have deviated from your strict interpretation of the topic.

    🙄🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,777 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Are coalmen a real thing? I thought they only existed in Mr Men books.

    Youd prefer to pay in cash than write a cheque? It's not the 1980s, there's other ways to pay than those two.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I still use my cheque book for wedding presents. Nothing else



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Nope.

    You need to understand the legislation and put it in context.

    For a debt to be created you need to create an account and have that account creation accepted as a credit account for you to put your purchases on. Shaws are a classic example. They now operate a chargecard, but previously it was a docket with your account number, purchases and your signature.

    You then went to the hatch every week/month and paid an amount off your account. In that scenario, "legal tender" cannot be refused as you have created a debt.


    If you don't have an account and are buying something, a debt with shaws (or any other place) has not been created in the context of payment by legal tender. Hence the "legal tender" argument does not exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    I actually find cash-only businesses more annoying now e.g. my local chipper and chinese takeaway. I have to go rooting for cash or actually have to use an ATM (!) to pay. Ridiculous in this day and age of course that they don't take card but the reason why they do so is pretty obvious.

    Revenue should carry out a root and branch audit of the cash-only fast food trade. After the fines and penalties, card payments would be quickly put in place!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's not as formal as that. Debts can certainly arise without that kind of documented account arrangement.

    If I order a meal in a restaurant, and they serve it, and I eat it, I have a debt due to the restaurant for the cost of the meal. The restaurant cannot refuse cash in settlement of the debt — unless, and this is an important exception, I have already accepted a contractual obligation to settle the debt by e.g. a card transaction. If it was made clear to me at the time the contract was formed - i.e. when I ordered the meal - that it would have to be settled with a card transaction, then I have entered into a contractual obligation to pay by card. That could be done by, e.g., a prominent signs that say "card payments only", a statement on the menu to that effect, the restaurant staff telling me this when I am seated or when I order, etc. I don't have to accept the "card payments only" condition either verbally or in writing; it's enough that I proceed to order, accept and eat the meal when I know or ought reasonably to know that I will be required to pay for it with a card.

    Different situation if I go into a coffee shop and order a coffee, and am expected to pay before the coffee is served to me. At the point where I offer cash there is no debt - the contract remains unperformed on both sides. The coffee shop can decline my cash and I walk out with no coffee.



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