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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    If forensics are from Dublin than they could hardly have been in league with corrupt local Guards having a part in a drug ring in the South West of Ireland. If they didn't find any DNA, any fingerprints, fiber of clothes or bits of hair at the scene, one must assume to a very high degree, that there were really none. So either the killer left no traces, or cleaned it up rather thoroughly.

    The only behavioural thing that really ties or would tie Bailey to the crime is that he was having a fire and burning something behind the studio. These fires may be common there, but why bother burning clothes, when one can bring them to a garbage site? There were easier methods to dispose of something, not needing a fire, not needing to supervise a fire or bother the fire from spreading and the job is done quicker.

    Again, that doesn't prove anything, nor is there any new evidence in this, it's just the idea that Bailey could have burned evidence which sticks to everybody's mind. The fire was long extinguished by the time Bailey was considered a suspect. So Bailey could have cleared away the ashes of the fire as well, which he apparently didn't do.

    So, we're non the wiser.

    I don't know it exactly, but it seems Sophie's house has hardly any windows facing north to the road leading to Alfie and Shirley's house. There is only one ? window facing to the west, all the other windows seem to be south facing. Facing to the west, there might have been trees obstructing the view to Alfie's and Shirley's? If there was any light coming out of the house, I'd tend to say, that Alfie and Shirley would not have noticed it in an instant. However they might have at a 2nd glance, as a beam of light would have illuminated the front of the house from the windows?

    But these are guesses as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And don't forget the Bandon tapes where detectives are recorded professionally threatening another officer for doing an honest job trying to get to the truth instead of toeing the party line to get 'a result'.

    And there was the GSOC report... which many Gardai refused to co-operate with, or were out of reach due to retirement. Or conveniently dead when it came to assigning responsibily for the deliberate cover-up of wrongdoing by destroying 35 pages from the evidence book. In other jurisdictions the cover up is treated as seriously as the act itself, because it's very hard to catch people in the act, but the destruction of evidence allows conclusions to be drawn.

    The DPP saw right through the shenanigans going on.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    Did any garda go to the spot of her death late at night, roar loudly and have another garda above at Alfies with the windows closed to test could they hear anything ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Who dutifully reports his suspicions to his next in command



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did any garda go to the spot of her death late at night, roar loudly and have another garda above at Alfies with the windows closed to test could they hear anything

    This would prove nothing.

    People often sleep through thunderstorms.

    This **** show of a website, if it was possible, is actually getting worse. Quoting text seems not to work now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If they thought they would get something from it to convict Bailey, they would have... they sent a Guard up a tree to see if he could get scratched like Bailey... maybe he was just a better climber!

    But they didn't send this intrepid Guard into the briars to see if he could get scratched like the scratches they claim Bailey got from briars...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It is entirely possible that Sophie was killed right on her doorstep and without any forewarning. At least this would have explained the blood stain at the door. Neither Alfie nor Shirley would have heard any screaming. The first blow to the head could have come from the back and totally unexpected to Sophie, and then the murderer carried her to the site where she was found. Injuries on the hands and her arms and legs could have been inflicted later on. Sophie was not too big, and a man the size like Bailey could have carried her with ease. He could then have taken one of those cavity blocks from that pump house and continued bashing her head in.

    Also there is no proof for this, but it's possible. It would at least explain why nobody heard anything that night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It doesn't really track with the evidence. How did Sophie get the scratches from briars and barbed wire if carried from door to gate? Why would the assailant do this? It's not like they were carrying the body to a more secluded spot where it wouldn't be seen, or dumping it in water. Picking up the body creates a big risk of forensics transference.

    Sophie had what appeared to be defensive wounds on her hands and arms.

    How did she end up with her own hair in her hand if she was killed in such a sudden manner?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    This **** show of a website, if it was possible, is actually getting worse. Quoting text seems not to work now.

    If you're on desktop...

    Copy the line(s) of text you want to quote from the post. Hit the quote button under the post. You will see a formatting symbol to the left of the text box. Looks like ql

    Select the third symbol ... "

    Select quote. Paste the text you wanted to quote.

    Some other options there such as spoiler tags which may be useful elsewhere on the site.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Well, the killer could have dragged her over the brambles and briars and barbed wire not caring about anything. The wounds on her hand and arm suggest to be in defence. It's hard to believe that any kind of fight would have been totally silent and it's also hard to believe that Sophie ripped her own hair out during a possible fight as well. At least with the latter the killer must have staged something.

    I don't believe that the police would have believed that Alfie and Shirley slept with earplugs in the countryside where it's quiet every night. I also can't believe they heard nothing at all that night. It's also possible that Alfie and Shirley did the killing and cleaning up of the site themselves.

    One thing I would have said was more than certain: If Bailey did it and was there, Bailey would have been a loud personality and noise would certainly have been part of the murder. I simply can't see Bailey being the quiet type for such a job.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The available evidence suggests there should have been a lot of noise if Sophie had defensive wounds from a fight.

    Unless... I wonder if its possible for a blow to the struck to the head that would partly stun a person, such that they couldnt / wouldnt be able to speak / scream but the flight instinct would still kick in.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't believe that the police would have believed that Alfie and Shirley slept with earplugs in the countryside where it's quiet every night. I also can't believe they heard nothing at all that night.

    It's entirely believable that they heard nothing. Many people sleep through thunder that shakes their house. It's not uncommon. Also, it was Christmas week, and they were well known to partake in activities that could induce a pleasant sedation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Agreed, but on the other side, noise would not have mattered at all, if for some motive known, speculative or not, Alfie and Shirley were both the killers. It would only have been their story, as the other neighbours were not there, and who would have known that with utter certainty: Only Alfie and Shirley. So Sophie could have screamed all she wanted, nobody except Alfie and Shirley heard her that night.


    It is a possibility. Naturally they won't admit to that in public.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    It is a possibility. Naturally they won't admit to that in public.

    Admit to what exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    "activities that could induce a pleasant sedation"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know if that's something they wouldn't be happy to talk about. A bit of recreational weed, a few strong hot whiskeys. I think the Gaurds had more important things on their mind. Like getting Ian Bailey. I mean they supplied hash to a man in exchange for a statement against Bailey later on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Jules said the coat taken by the Gardai was cut up into small pieces for testing. It's in one of the documentaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case




  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    I think it would be helpful if fact could be separated from fiction in Alfie's case.

    Is it true he had a bandaged hand from a dog bite on the morning of the murder?

    We all know it would have been handcuffs for Bailey, painful as possible, if he'd had similar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭kerry_man15


    I'd find it hard to believe that Sophie, with boots laced up, couldn't outrun a drunken IB (if it was him). Also the attack didn't occur inside the house, it's hard to believe he'd try to initiate romantic/sexual activities outside on a freezing night. And if he did, surely she'd have been able to try to talk her way around it whilst moving back towards the house to safety. The first reaction to getting rebuffed wouldn't be to bash someone in the head with a rock (which would mean already having a rock in your hand). Who tries it on with someone while holding a rock?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    The fact remains that Alfie and Shirley are the only people we can say for certain were in the vicinity when this murder happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Nice front page headline in the Examiner today "Retired senior garda arrested in gangland probe". Obviously pure fantasy as some on here like to make out 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Yes I saw that last night. When did he lose his way? Back in the 80s or 90s?🤑



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Alfie was in a stupor? It's possible.

    Mr Bailey, smoker and drinker, as we know had been at a party on Sat night going to bed after 3am and leaving the party house at 7.30am. That day he killed some turkeys and climbed a tree to cut the top off it. Went out that night for pints until closing and maybe a smoke for some pleasant sedation when he came home. He lay down for an hour, restless and unsedated, before, as seems to be true, doing some writing. Then he reached for his heavy black coat to go outside for a 6 or 7 km walk?

    When his partner blinked her eyes the fateful following morning he was standing at the foot of the bed. Coffee? he smiled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    This is why I believe Bailey didn't do it. How many drinks did he have that night in the pub? I would believe that it was at least that much, that legally he couldn't drive. Not that that would have stopped him, but taking a hike for one hour to kill a women, cover everything up not leaving any evidence and hike back again, and not getting discovered by Alfie and Shirley is something I find highly impossible. And then he would have to wash himself, change clothes, and hide everything from Jules.

    This is one reason, why I think that Alfie and Shirley must have had some role in it if that "local knowledge" is to be emphasised on. They also knew when Sophie was there, who was coming and going, cars coming up the driveway etc.... At some stage they must have known Sophie's habits, like was she an early riser? When did she go to bed? etc.. If somebody had real local knowledge it was Alfie and Shirley. Only Alfie and Shirley would have known with certainty that they were totally alone that night and had little risk of witnesses if they killed Sophie. They were also way to close to get away with "we haven't heard anything that night" kind of talk. Noise must have been part of the murder, that much is certain. If Alfie and Shirley did the murder I don't think they acted on their own interest, they were probably coerced to do it by somebody they were connected to, possibly by the drug ring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30


    For me the vicinity is the townland, Dunmanus, its only 1.5km away (3min in a car), .....For others its a few klm's to I.B's house..

    Another observation , There is a main road only 640m to the north of her house , cross country ,easy access for anyone for any reason.. Ref G.Earth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30



    If the killer was taking this (cross country route) as a return route it would take him back past Sophies house & door.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    I know from looking for fishing spots along that coast road. It would be no easy task to make your way to the house from that road



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrMischief


    That's the view from the Lyon's driveway at ground level towards the clearly visible Sophies house. The growth a couple of years previously would have been less I'd imagine and especially with it being Dec where the bushes/tress would have been at their barest.

    An even better view from their upstairs windows;

    My point being, I think it's fair to assume that they would know if the house just below them was occupied at certain times after dark. Not implying their guilty at all but as pointed out its strange with the lack of information regarding their movement in the days leading up to the murder and even the day of the murder.

    And there was two windows on the Lyons side of her house;





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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I wonder if the rubbish Shirley was taking to the dump when she found the body was looked at.

    A trip that was urgent enough to complete 4 hours later, which involved driving through the murder scene.



This discussion has been closed.
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