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What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

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13567…166

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    #62
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953439#Comment_117953439

    Disagree on the mss ….they will have to be adopted and they do work bit long term persistency is a bit of an unknown ….Tegasc missed a beat on this and not where they should be .I’ve one paddock done this year and v impressed

    on the grass and clover Yeadh great job ….but only from July to early September but establishing it and weed control will be an ongoing issue …clover safe sprays pulled and clover dwarfs won’t do much from February to June and after September ….also al these prg we’ve put in last few years how will they react to less and less n ????I think they’ll struggle



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    #63
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953481#Comment_117953481

    Teagasc have come around to the idea of mss lately though, there was a good webinar on the subject last week. Not sure if it's available to rewatch again but it was very interesting.



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    #64
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    From my farms point of view I'm slow about going too far down the clover road yet, my problem with it is these later springs we are getting, clover wont grow in cold weather, so you end up with a bigger grass shortage then, and then specific to here are summer drought's, there is no point saying the clovers lower spring growth is compensated by better summer growth if you have any sort of drought in the summer and are back to GRs of 40. MSS will hopefully prove to be more promising but too early yet to bother going in heavy with them. I've got on very well with maize as a winter feed (I feed it to everything, milkers drys and heifers), this year I've got one of the best crops I've grown and only used about 80units of bag nitrogen on it, so its working out far better value than any sort of 2 or 3 cut grass system in terms of N use.



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    #65
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953481#Comment_117953481

    https://notmanpasture.com.au/ used to work on a farm in Australia beside this lad and would often be chatting him in the pub, the wealth of knowledge he has was unbelievable, teagasc wouldn't hold a candle to the knowledge and real world experience this lad has for growing crops without huge amount of artifical fertilizer



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    #66
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953632#Comment_117953632

    It's all about balance though, ryegrass still definitely will play a role in early growth. Clover will come on later in the summer, as will meadow grasses and herbs. The likes of Christine Jones would prefer just herbs and clover but I don't think that's very viable here. A sward like that would have really struggled to get going with the poor month of may we had that just held everything back.

    MSS seemed to thrive in drought conditions in recent studies so there's definitely potential for it. As the guy running the organic dairy farm said on the webinar last week: just chance a couple of acres of MSS first and see how you get on, no point in converting the whole farm to it if the soil isn't right for it. Which all ties back to the need for deep soil analysis.

    I know in my own experience from the last few droughts was that the clover got a great chance to establish as the grass wasn't as strong for time. Pretty happy with the covers now.



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    #67
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭White Clover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954370#Comment_117954370

    What is the optimal Ph and P & K indexes for MSS to do best in?



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    #68
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954928#Comment_117954928
    https://www.dlfseeds.ie/multi-species-r-d/multi-species/dlf-multispecies-agronomy-guide

    Just having a gawk through DLFs website about that, Although it doesn't give specific figures, it would be similar to what would be ideal conditions for ryegrass to grow. They seem to push for the more simple 6 species mss for most souls but with addition of other grass species like Timothy for wetter ground. It still goes back to the foundation of all life though: it's all about the soil. That has to be right first. With all that being said I've never seen the likes of plantain having any difficulty growing anywhere.

    https://youtu.be/hWnyAQj-sVA

    This is a decent video about how to chose the right mixture, I'm fully aware that this crowd are pushing to sell this stuff on the back of these videos but it's still decent for information.



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    #69
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Fertiliser is still moving down my way… saw a full load landing in a yard this morning. I would call this farm heavily stocked so I guess he is worried about next Spring. Would love to know the price he’s paying for it now.



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    #70
    GrasstoMilk
    Registered Users Posts: 4,014 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955904#Comment_117955904

    Guys have tax bills to consider too

    if bought a lot last autumn they can’t let this year go with out buying some



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    #71
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955904#Comment_117955904

    680 for urea and 480 for sulpha-can was been quoted by glanbia on Thursday for what they had in stock



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    #72
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Who2


    I priced around a few places today seeing what was in stock I got quoted everything including 325,335,360 for old stock can to 395-450 for next load. Old stock compounds 420-460. New stock they wouldn’t quote but reckon it’ll be over 600 and closer to seven for the likes of 10-10-20.

    I bought what I could of the old stock which wasn’t a whole pile.

    it’s going to lead to a very interesting year next year.



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    #73
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Wouldn't buy any old stock of the protected stuff, that would want to be fresh. Coating doesn't last over 6 months I reckon. Anything we've used that has been in that yard for a few months is a pia to spread



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    #74
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Who2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956184#Comment_117956184

    I’m putting it into a shed and it hasn’t been in their yards too long so I’m not too worried. None of what I bought is protected. Not by choice it’s just there wasn’t any.



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    #75
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956184#Comment_117956184

    I’d say there will be frig all protected spread next year if some of prices here are reflected in normal urea…..the topic of fertiliser came up at our group meeting yesterday …few of the older boys not too bothered …there talking it up ….tried 2 places this week they wouldn’t even quote ..there not in market /sitting back and suppliers not quoting



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    #76
    ruwithme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭ruwithme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955904#Comment_117955904

    He's probably on here somewhere.



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    #77
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,994 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956543#Comment_117956543

    Could be Jay lol



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    #78
    Sugarbowl
    Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956543#Comment_117956543

    Funny that was the first thing I thought of! 😀



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    #79
    farm to fork
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭farm to fork


    Starting spreading watery Pig slurry on grazed paddocks at a rate of 1000 gallons per acre last year and continued this year, I have noticed that there is a lot more clover in my swards. This is old grass with some which has not been reseeded as long as I can remember.

    This year has been an exceptional year for growth but I feel by feeding the soil organically and getting the balance correct will be the future. I also found I have turned around old pasture by setting up small 2 acre paddocks and topping frequently getting rid of that old butt to the grass and encouraging tillers.

    New species of grass are great and respond well to N and I will be reseeding hopefully in the new year where paddocks are made up of predominantly non-productive grasses.

    But I will be cutting my cloth to measure…………



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    #80
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956184#Comment_117956184

    Have a ton of urea in small bags that's at least a year old. Was planning to use it on tree stumps in the forestry. I offered it to two neighbours last spring and neither of them took it. Bet they'll take it next spring.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #81
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Straight urea? That's fine once kept dry most fert would be grand, it's specifically the protected stuff I've had issues with. That's why I reckon its gonna be a big issue going forward even for suppliers keeping stock for x length of time, esp in 23 when afaik there'll be no more standard urea coming in to the country



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    #82
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958384#Comment_117958384

    For all the talk of protected urea ….it’s not really selling ,not been stocked unless u really really want it …can’t see it changing ,it’s a premium price over urea and will be worse next year .used it last year no issue ,none this year on price and availability ,spread sweet grass all summer



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    #83
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956569#Comment_117956569
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Tyne_Ag/status/1442912710501433346

    I wish it was



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    #84
    GrasstoMilk
    Registered Users Posts: 4,014 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958415#Comment_117958415

    The chief in EPA had a pretty scathing article on dairy earlier in the week but one thing she did say made a difference to our co2 output in 2019 was protected urea and LESS

    she reckons if there is a much bigger up take we could go along way on rectifying emissions from ag



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    #85
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,828 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Corn/Maize is one of the most important feeds in the global beef export market.


    The supply of that and grains being hit in a small way and this looks like a big way, will hit the global supply of beef and milk very hard.


    Only 20% of global fertilizer use is on grass land.


    Take the Harris ranch in California, it produces 68,000 tonne of beef a year. It's a very big feedlot on a train line. There are a lot of feedlots where a half to a million bullocks a year is a given.

    2 weeks of beef supply in Ireland from Harris, a country which is the 6th biggest beef exporter in the world.


    All built on Maize silage and grain.


    Milk in America is the same.


    Much of the world has big farms with average to poor land but very cheap fertilizer driving cheap food.


    Our natural advantage in growth won't solve this but there is a comfort in knowing that the gut punch one gets is better than 3 kicks to the head for the other guy.



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    #86
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959452#Comment_117959452

    Can only speak of around here but very few used protected urea and practically no one this year ….just too dear and dosnt look like changing …less alright majority are using it



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    #87
    Fanofconnacht
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Fanofconnacht


    Nobody supplier will quote a selling price unless and until they know their purchase price. Fertilizer margins are too low to allow for speculation.

    It is a given at this point that prices will be higher next spring due to producers significantly higher input prices. May also be in short supply due to input shortages, production shutdowns Lorry driver shortage in UK, global supply chain issues etc.

    We can expect a drop in beef prices in short term as farmers destock due to fertilizer prices but prices will rise after destocking happens.



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    #88
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭White Clover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960031#Comment_117960031

    I don't get your 3rd paragraph. I'd be inclined to predict the opposite of what you say.



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    #89
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960031#Comment_117960031

    It's not going to be a issue in the states till they start needing to use next years harvest, likewise with milk producers, so winter/spring 2023 is when the proverbial will hit out their, intensively stocked farms here can't survive without nitrogen in 2022 unless they drastically cut stocking rates our fed huge amounts of meal



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    #90
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,206 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    At this stage now we as well close this thread until after Christmas because there's nothing can be done about it now as no one is quoting for anything.maybe a good idea to lime the whole farm this to try and release some nitro or look at forward buying ration as hedge.just bear in mind we had a similar around 06 or 07 or so and merchant's ended up burnt when cheaper stuff came on line later the spring.at the prices bandied about there is as much downside risk as up. Just curious is fertiliser the same price all over the world or are there protected markets



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    #91
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960328#Comment_117960328

    It's no way comparable to 06/07 energy prices especially gas are spiralling out of control, the push for clean energy and shutting down coal plants etc has created a set of circumstances that the fertilizer markets have never expirenced, keeping everyone updated on a thread like this is pretty important I would of thought on a fertiliser market that's changing by the hour



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