Is it worth giving your life to minimum wage jobs?

Wanderer78 · 29-09-2021 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954342#Comment_117954342

heard bad things about them here as well, probably no where near as bad as america though, but a leopard never changes his spots!

backwards_man · 29-09-2021 5:52pm

Working hard and having ambition in almost any field will lead to better pay, not only in private sector but public sector as well.

Someone on here said that their happiest job was being a waiter. So why not be the best waiter in the business and go work for a high end restaurant where wages and tips are really high and good waiters are paid a premium? Why be a minimum wage waiter? and if no such "high-end" waiter position exists then that is not a sustainable career for an adult with bills to pay. I love teaching, but I cannot live on the income that my teaching work brings in. So I earn my living at something else. I do some teaching as a hobby.

Maybe people don't realise that a lot of jobs pay well, and you don't need to be a genius to have one of those jobs. But sticking with a minimum wage job in your 20s with no attempt to move onto something better in terms of pay, will surely lead to you still having a minimum wage job in your 30s and beyond. Not sure why that is the fault of the government or your employer.

29-09-2021 6:06pm

I know a ton of working in factories who have just no will to move onto something else. They get one euro above minimum wage.

Some have mortgages when they were half the price they are now, others are house sharing.

They have a handy job and that's all that matters to them. No will to upskill and move into something with pressure.

The factories are local as well, some people are just happy on minimum wage and have the craic With people they know and are happier than most in pressurised environments.

Wanderer78 · 29-09-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955384#Comment_117955384

funnily enough, you ll find many of these statements arent actually true for many in life, you ll find many low paid workers are actually well qualified, many with level 8's and beyond, this is becoming more the norm across the developed world. career progression requires a multitude of factors to occur, some in the control of the individual, many simply not, we simply dont live on a planet of equal opportunities, but many seem to think we do

Mister Vain · 29-09-2021 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955442#Comment_117955442

I used to work in a factory/warehouse. It was handy for a while and I was fairly content, but when it got busy it was anything but. I was under serious pressure and getting shít pay so eventually left as it just wasn't worth it. I know a couple of lads still there that have college degrees.

Wanderer78 · 29-09-2021 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955580#Comment_117955580

worked in a factory myself, wasnt the only college grad on the floor, some were well more qualified than myself, tis common enough, good few lads fully qualified in the trades, working on factory floors also

c.p.w.g.w · 29-09-2021 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949004#Comment_117949004

You would be surprised how many work places plant the seed of

+"grass Isn't always greener on the other side"

+"Sure you have no protections in a new job until your there over 1 year"

I worked in one such place, above minimum wage, but still a poor wage, definitely stayed there too long

c.p.w.g.w · 29-09-2021 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117951555#Comment_117951555

Factory Floor work pays pretty well in my experience, for inexperienced and experienced...

When I moved from retail(Mgmt position) to manufacturing I bagged myself 47% raise and additional benefits

Wanderer78 · 29-09-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955635#Comment_117955635

some do, some dont, some are very low pay for shifts etc

Galwayguy35 · 29-09-2021 9:01pm

Funny enough the best money I was on was over on the building sites in England nearly 30 years ago, only stuck it for a few years though and when I came home have been in factories and warehouses since.

Basic pay in these jobs is sh!te but its the shift pay and OT that I did so was making decent enough money to pay the bills and take at least one holiday abroad every year.

Was never interested in the whole marraige and kids thing so I suppose it was easier for someone like me to always work in what would be a job on the lower end of the scale.

Potential-Monke · 29-09-2021 11:26pm

@Hotblack Desiato You wouldn't be saying that if you needed someone to help you out as you get older. That's where I'm at. I moved home after selling my house (at a loss) as a temporary measure until I got back on my feet. I'm still here 5 years later because it works for all of us. I look after everything technological for them, which includes banking these days, I help out with the jobs they can no longer do, I make dinners and breakfasts. I also work nights, so I'm awake while they're asleep in case anything ever happens. Not everyone who still lives with their parents in the 30's is still a "kid", and some parents would love the idea of their cherished child being at home again.

@backwards_man If you have a handy list of all thse places throughout Ireland, please let me know. As far as I'm aware, these places are few and far between, or are in Dubland, or are terrible to work for. The closest to me is Adare Manor, and they have a revolving door of staff with multiple different complaints (had a family member working there for a bit). Unless you think people should put up with crap in the hope that one day it will get better (from my experience, if a place is crap to work in, it stays crap). There's very few waiting jobs out there that are outside of the minimum wage waiter. I've looked.

Re: The Living Wage. I had a look, and for someone in my position (single, no dependents, rural), it's telling me my weekly housing costs are €108.67, or approx €440 per month. Please, show me some place in Limerick county where I can rent a place by myself for that (cheapest I could find on a quick scan was €125 a week for a house in Rathkeale, next cheapest was €1100 a month). Also to note, the rate they came up with is 90% of the average for a 1 bed flat, not a house, which are very hard to find in the country imo. And it assumes this person will have a medical card for GP visits. They put health insurance down for less that €10 a week, but the cheapest (and min/basic cover) is €44 a month. Transport €70 a week, when I was spending €100 on diesel alone per week before lockdown. Car insurance for less than €400? Hah! Doesn't even include house insurance (because we're most likely renting?!). Broadband and phone? Hope you only need that €20 monthly top up, and basic internet at €45 a month. €1100 a year for Household Energy, seems pretty small to me.

This Living Wage is bollocks, and sounds more like a survivable wage than a living one. It allows for the saving of €10 per week, woooooo! One single car problem, and you're fcuked. And absolutely no mention of loans, so as a single male I'm not expected to have a loan according to MESL/Living Wage.

Silent Shrill · 30-09-2021 4:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957205#Comment_117957205

That post just about sums it up.

The minimum wage is only a survival wage.

We can all bicker amongst ourselves about, "life is not fair", "minimum wage is there for youngsters, or starting work", but the reality is that there are hard working people out there that are on minimum wage. They take the jobs that are at the bottom of the pile. Irrespective of whether they are happy or not, is not in question.

The harsh reality is that minimum wage earners with a family, or as a carer, get very little, (in the way of money), for putting up with the crap some take. Many are happy doing what they do as a "job". My whole question was, "Is it worth it"?

Most people say, "not really"......as they get older.

So what is worth giving 5 days a week over to someone else? Everyone working should be able to have 2 weeks holiday to any of the usual holiday spots, (I'm not talking exotic places), or stay at home if you wish. Whatever you choose you should not have to borrow money to pay for it...YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR 48 WEEKS THIS YEAR, ARE YOU NOT ENTITLED TO A HOLIDAY AT THE VERY LEAST? without having to think where the money will come from, or "let's pay peter to pay paul", or go with the yearly loan we take out for this occasion.

They could afford family holidays back in the 60's without borrowing money, and here we are 60 years later......and cannot.

Every working person is entitled to certain "privileges", otherwise they are simply working to exist, anything above the funds needs getting from elsewhere.

So the definition of "minimum wage" is,

One step above unemployment status. The luxury of working allows you to get credit.

Minimum wage is a joke. In this day and age of the great technological advancements we've made, or claim to have, we still have old-fashioned heating in houses, we have all the technological items that we are all told we need, yet energy costs go up, rents go up, vehicle fuel/drink/food, insurance for the car/house/medical/life, V.A.T., etc. and what do we get in return from the govt? a 1.5% cut in tax rate, or a tenner extra on the dole. Great if you're on 200k a year. Not really a lot of difference on minimum wage.

Of course, there are the extras you can claim, such as F.I.S., or tax credits in the U.K. Therefore, many families claim what they can. For single people I believe the story is a bit different. Whatever path, you have to disclose your life to them to be entitled.

Minimum wage earners are seen as canon fodder. An employer wants to pay the least it can in wages, but wants their "pound of flesh". They know you will be with them for around 6 months, but have new people starting every week, because the staff turnover is so high. You might be lucky, and love working where you are for minimum wage, and get at least a pay rise every year......which in turn means you are no longer on minimum wage. Many minimum wage jobs have no pay rises, you all get the minimum wage, every year....and pay taxes, or not.

Minimum wage is fantastic for the new workers that are single, living at home. I wish I had been getting somewhere close to that when I started work.

Once you're past a certain age you get a bit "routeenish" with life, excuse the word but it seemed to fit. Then you're 50+, with a family, and all the trimmings. You don't even remember getting there. Minimum wage just ain't cutting it anymore. Remember work?...8 til 5? Same wage every week/month? Get home, have dinner, watch T.V, go to bed. Do the same every day....for 5 days, rotating shifts. Have a couple of days off to get that energy flowing again for work, oh, and say hello to your little ones, who are now 13. Do that for 50 years. Only you did it on minimum wage.

Does that mean, (as a society), that we are so ingrained with, "It didn't hurt me", that we are happy letting our own flesh and blood have to also go through it? and not only our own, but other people that found themselves at whatever age, and under whatever circumstances, in the position of minimum wage. Would we not want better for them?

How is it legal that a company does not have to give pay rises at all? How is it legal to allow your staff 15 minutes per day of work to use for the bathroom, and you are watched by way of timer? If you've never worked under those rules for minimum wage, I could highly recommend 1 or 2 large employers in the country. I'm sure an individual working there will gladly swap roles with you for say 50k per year. Both given 4 weeks training. See who wants their old job back first.

We are all where we are for whatever reason. We carry on with life, that's what humans do. We seem, to have lost the "looking after each other" part. The part that all politicians spout before election. Then nothing changes. So we carry on. Then our children carry it on. Then their children. Some break the cycle, some fall into it. During all this time, outlay always seems more than the extra incoming, slowly wearing us down until we finally accept that, "this is the way it is". We have,...modernised....the lower classes of finances.

In return we have been given technology, a bit similar to the old way of the working man could buy a tv, but the unemployed could not. Now the unemployed can buy lots of tv's if they need. The working man can get...........and I'm struggling here! and nothing comes to mind which does not involve some form of debt.

So what are they working for? to keep financial institutions in business? The same ones that we had to bail out?

Pay/wages, has always been an issue. Mainly with the lower paid sector. Rulings are no longer a country thing, but rather a European one, which lets the govt off nicely.

We have all been duped once again, and the cycle will continue.

backwards_man · 30-09-2021 9:15am

Potential_Monke: " @backwards_man If you have a handy list of all thse places throughout Ireland, please let me know. As far as I'm aware, these places are few and far between, or are in Dubland, or are terrible to work for. The closest to me is Adare Manor, and they have a revolving door of staff with multiple different complaints (had a family member working there for a bit). Unless you think people should put up with crap in the hope that one day it will get better (from my experience, if a place is crap to work in, it stays crap). There's very few waiting jobs out there that are outside of the minimum wage waiter. I've looked."

I know literally nothing about waiting jobs, and if you say such a good job doesnt exist then perhaps stop considering waiting jobs as a realistic long term career choice, however much enjoyment you get out of it. You have listed several reasons why you wont work at a high end place - terrible to work for, are in Dublin - all I hear are excuses. You want your ideal job on your doorstep where everyone stays because they are happy. Its not realistic.

Nermal · 30-09-2021 11:58am

Whether it's worth it or not depends entirely on the alternative, i.e. social welfare.

salonfire · 30-09-2021 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957430#Comment_117957430

What a load of crying nonsense. The country is full of high paying jobs and are crying out for people.

Just because schools are full of cheeky brats who couldn't be arsed learning and studying, it's their own fault they find themselves packing boxes.

And anyone who wants to upskill has plenty of opportunity and courses to pick from.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-09-2021 1:55pm

Agreed. Just a big whinge. By and large, people are paid what their work is worth to their employer.

Silent Shrill · 30-09-2021 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958424#Comment_117958424

That's not the only alternative.

Silent Shrill · 30-09-2021 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958702#Comment_117958702

Don't know where you're living, but to get high paying jobs require the skills that are needed for that job. Maybe you earn good money, others do not. A low wage worker is not going to get your, "highly paid jobs".

I like your pointing the finger at certain people, this is the reason we have low paid jobs.

Upskill? you mean those crappy courses that were started by FAS? and are being continued by the same people under a different name? Courses not worth the paper they're written on. My cat could get a cert for one of those courses.

You are living in a dream that has been instilled into your head by listening to the media, believing your T.D.'s, and reading too many rags.

Your comment shows your distaste for young people.

Silent Shrill · 30-09-2021 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958948#Comment_117958948

I've seen civil servants sitting at desks pushing pens around because they have nothing to do. One person in my local town, working for the HSE, walks around all day with a piece of paper in his hand. To me, and many others, those people should be let go. Why should the tax payer be paying high wages to those in the civil service that do nothing?

If they were paid their worth that would be 10 euro per week.

People are paid at least minimum wage, not what you deem, "worth". Maybe you would prefer all people doing menial tasks to be paid even less, or better still, nothing. Hey, let's just turn the country into another country that uses kids for slave labour, and we can give adults a bag of rice per week.

Shao Kahn · 30-09-2021 4:50pm

I do think there is a bit of ingrained disrespect for people who work what are menial / unskilled jobs, but which can in many cases be very physically draining.

Grunt work as the yanks would call it.

Obviously, I think you do deserve to be paid a good wage if you studied or trained to gain a high level skill or competency in something. But there is also an argument that physically exhausting yourself everyday should come with a decent wage too. Even if it's unskilled work. You're giving away your time and in many cases being completely physically shattered at the end of the day/week.

Hard manual labor is no picnic, I've done my time in these jobs. Your weekends can be spent just merely recovering physically, so you can go again on monday. When you're a kid, your body will take the punishment. (and bad money) But I do have sympathy for the older guys who are still grinding away for years.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-09-2021 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959697#Comment_117959697

What a load of complete bollocks.

I said nothing about paying people lower.

I really don't know what you set up this thread for, if you want to just rant then maybe get a blog.

There will always be low paid jobs because some jobs are unskilled and/or add little value.

Potential-Monke · 30-09-2021 9:36pm

So the people serving you every day at the shops or supermarkets add little value? The ones who deliver your food, the ones who clean the mess you left at a restaurant table, the ones who wash your car, etc. All of them add little value. There's the problem, people think these jobs are worth nothing so they are paid nothing, but if all these people stopped working, then no one would be able to buy anything. But on the flip side, there's also plenty of "skilled" people in high paying jobs that wouldn't be useful as a paperweight.

riclad · 01-10-2021 1:40am

Unless you live in a rural area you don't need a car use bus, luas or cycle. Even in mcdonalds you, ll be offered a promotion after a few years . If your wage is under 35k in theory you can Get on the housing list and maybe get offered a council flat with a low rent based on your wage

The only single people in know in council flats are over 60, or on disability allowance i don't know how single people survive in the present housing crisis unless they can live at home it seems we are going back to the 70s eg rising inflation, high fuel prices, some items are simply out of stock

Actually in the 70s rents were low and house prices were low so we could be worse off in theory in 2022

Factory's in China are closing down due to lack of power

I think some people have left Ireland since the cost of living and rent is just too high

Rents are high and the average flat for rent is mediocre

If you want a good pension after retiring you will need to save about 20 per cent of your income every year

riclad · 01-10-2021 2:26am

The economy depends on drivers, people who work in retail, cafes, hotels , shops , we could not exist without them. They are essential workers. Not everyone wants to get a degree or has the talent to be a singer, writer or an artist

salonfire · 01-10-2021 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960941#Comment_117960941

Those people are in worthless jobs though. Everyone knows that. They could be replaced in the afternoon.

Avoiding these types of low paid jobs is what drives people to do well and put in some effort in school.

Otherwise, we'd all settle for those jobs and forget about school and spend school and college years having the craic, drinking and riding. Then what kind of society would we have without the highly skilled?

Hotblack Desiato · 01-10-2021 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960941#Comment_117960941

It suits you to ignore half of what I said and concentrate on the other part.

Fact is, none of these jobs are skilled and can be done by any 18 year old. That's never going to be anything other than at the lower end of the pay scale.

AFAIK none of the major supermarkets pay minimum wage, at least not once you've been there for 6 / 12 months. All of them have management development programmes and promotion opportunities. But checkout till etc. jobs do suit a lot of people e.g. mothers who want part time hours and are not relying on the job as the main family income.

I do think waiting staff should be paid better than they are and it's not really surprising that they are having difficulty recruiting people back in at the moment. Tips are used as an excuse to keep wages low. I tip well when service is good but is that just helping to perpetuate the low wage culture? I almost always tip in cash not card and won't eat anywhere where management are known to dip into the tips.

backwards_man · 01-10-2021 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959867#Comment_117959867

I agree some people look down on grunt work. Minimum wage jobs are a hard slog in many cases and the older you get the harder they are to endure, either mentally or physically. Sitting at a cash register for hours on end would be mind numbingly boring for me, I would be very unwell mentally if I did that 40 hours a week year after year.

If you havent made the leap into salaried work rathaer than hourly paid work by your 30s I would say its very difficult to transition. I persoanlly found that as I have gotten older my apetite for learning new skills in my field has reduced greatly.

01-10-2021 6:41pm

I'm probably somewhat of an oddity in that I left my office job to work in a minimum wage hospitality role. For me I got sick of office politics for example someone being promoted not based on their qualifications or experience but purely based on who they knew and being given too much work to do and no budget to help speed up the process.

The one good thing about my role at moment is once I am finished work that's me done for the day and there is no office politics at least none that is evident to me everybody is here to do their job and get paid. Also free food!

I definitely do feel the hospitality industry needs to massively improve working conditions and pay for staff at all levels.

Silent Shrill · 02-10-2021 2:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960684#Comment_117960684

Yes, your choice of words shows your lack of respect,.....and we are to take note of you?

No job is "unskilled". "Add little value".?? what are we adding value to? Ohh!, you mean they add no value to society? They add no value to life? They are worthless then. Great, I'm glad you cleared that up.

So there you have it. Those on low-paid, minimum wage jobs are unskilled, no value to anything, and basically you're there because you're worthless.

That is what is thought of you by some, (probably higher-paid workers or business owners). They are the ones who probably throw coins on the counter rather than hand them to you......(we wouldn't want them to get infected with a low-paid workers disease).

A blog? We don't need a blog, we have you.....and the only one ranting is you.

This is why I started this post/thread. I knew the likes of above would have to come out of the woodwork to try and make out that everything I have written is a fantasy.

If it were a fantasy there would be no "against" remarks, but when truths are put forward that show that there is a genuine shortcoming with minimum wage earners, certain sectors do not like it.

I know, as well as anyone else in the world that we cannot get by without money, some try it, but it ain't fun. There's practically nothing we can do about it, unions are like hen teeth, we are all ruled by Brussells, and your local politician don't really care. It will not get better, those getting low pay will see that dwindle over time as costs go up, exceeding the released figures for cost of living. You will not even notice, you will simply borrow more.

I worked in the U.K. for a long time. I visited people in their own home. Usually they were minimum wage earners. I met a Nigerian couple one day. We were talking, and due to the nature of my visit, I gathered background info. Both of them in their 30's. Lived in a basic 2 up 2 down, joined house. Old furniture, (sparse), lifeless house TBH. So they both worked as cleaners, 12 hour shifts. Husband worked 1 shift, wife worked the other, so rarely met. They had been working for a year, and felt absolutely at a loss. The money they were earning just covered the bills and food. They had to work as they wanted to bring over their 2 daughters that the govt insisted had to be cared for, (cover costs), and they were to prove they could afford to do that, (they could just about keep themselves).

I was ashamed to call myself British.

Though now, after reading Hotblack's post, I am feeling somewhat better.

I now know they were in that position because they were unskilled, and of little value to anything.

Homelander · 02-10-2021 2:52am

No offence but you are coming across as a deranged lunatic with a massive chip on their shoulder.

In terms of the workforce, words like "unskilled" aren't any judgement on an actual person, obviously.

The truth is, minimum wage jobs are minimum wage because anyone could saunter in, and take up the job and be up to speed in a few weeks.

That doesn't mean the people working in those role aren't great people and don't have to put up with tons of crap. No one said otherwise. Certainly, no-one said they, as people or workers, are actually "worthless".

It also ignores the fact that most "minimum wage" jobs lauded about here aren't actually minimum wage. In fact, most jobs have a scale, so even in those unskilled positions, the vast majority of people make above minimum wage. I believe someone already posted the statistic - only something like 6-7% of the pop are on the actual minimum wage, and of that subsection, most are indeed younger people.

As I said before, I've worked all sort ofs jobs in my life and even with zero qualifications, my last minimum wage job was when I was a teenager, and I'm a fair way off minimum wage.

Putting aside the fact that most "minimum wage" jobs have some sort of scale that brings it closer in living with the "living wage" with a few years service, they also usually offer promotional opportunities, like supervisor, manager, whatever, if the ambition is there.

I'm not sure what your argument is. People should be paid high salaries and be able to live good, plentiful lives and rear families at even the most basic level, regardless of their skills? It's just not a workable argument.

I mean even in this thread there's been tons of careers thrown around as examples of minimum wage.....none of which are even closer to minimum wage for anyone who stays in them.

It all amounts to an argument that people should be able to have families, homes, holidays, great lives even on the most basic of unskilled jobs. It's not realistic. Not in Ireland, not in the UK, not in Europe, not anywhere in the world.

Unless you wish to return to communism, East Germany style.

Is it worth giving your life to minimum wage jobs?

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