Ferrex 40v vs Parkside 20v Circular Saw.

peter_dublin · 07-04-2021 10:06am #1

Hi.

Does anyone know if there is any real difference between the Aldi Ferrex 40v tools and the equivalent Lidl Parkside 20v tool.

For example the Ferrex Circular Saw and Angle Grinder are all 40v while the Parkside versions are 20v.

Same on the garden range side. Ferrex Lawnmower and chainsaw are 40v while the Parkside equivalents are 20v.

Thanks

Calahonda52 · 07-04-2021 10:51am

40 vs 20

AMKC · 07-04-2021 11:08am

You need two 20v batteries for the Farex 40v lawnmower to work. Other than than they are just higher voltage. I would say the Ferrex are better as the Parkside batteries have a tendency not to work in the cold and some times too. No idea about the Ferrex batteries.
You get what you pay for. If you get more than a year out of either of these you are doing well. They are made to a price and to low standards too.

Notch000 · 07-04-2021 11:27am

was looking at review of the parkside 20V. there pretty poor, some said would work best with the 4ah battery,
be better getting a cheap 240v one

listermint · 07-04-2021 11:34am

No idea but look at the aH of the batteries. 4 plus is the absolute baseline these days for most tools. But some even go up to 12aH for the likes of DeWalt. aH providing the grunt for the motor.

jmBuildExt · 07-04-2021 1:48pm

listermint wrote: »

No idea but look at the aH of the batteries. 4 plus is the absolute baseline these days for most tools. But some even go up to 12aH for the likes of DeWalt. aH providing the grunt for the motor.

Amp Hours measure battery capacity not "grunt" or power as i think you intended.
So a 4Ah battery will last twice as long as a 2Ah battery in the same tool. The Ah rating has nothing to do with the tool itself, just the amount of time it can supply power to a particular tool (and that amount of time can go up and down depending on how much power the tool is using)

listermint wrote: »

No idea

You should have stopped here

- this is the answer im giving below in along winded way.

Short answer is it depends on the design of the tool and how much current it will draw from the battery. Read on for the boring bit - Ohm's law lesson incoming

Power has a relationship to voltage, P=VI (where I is current) - so in that sense you might think if I up the voltage of the battery, I up the power. This would be true if you were talking about the same tool (ignoring the fact that the internals may not be designed for 40v).

But the other part of the equation I (current) will depend on the resistance, R inside the device. I=V/R

Putting the 2 formulae together you get P=V²/R

So since R is dictated by the device itself, and we don't know what R is in each tool you haven't enough info to make a call based on what type of battery it uses.

Lumen · 07-04-2021 2:34pm

Ohm's law is all well and good, but in practice what matters is power, and power is determined largely by the size of the battery pack. Each individual cell (usually in 18650 form) is limited in its discharge rate, so the more cells you pack in, the more power the pack can deliver.

A Makita 18V 3Ah battery (for instance) has 10 18650 cells inside, and one of those batteries can push about 800W for about 4 minutes, although more realistically the voltage and wattage will drop as the cells discharge, to perhaps 60% (~500W).

This means if you have a twin-18V tool like a Makita plunge saw that is rated for 1200W, it's going to struggle with twin 3Ah batteries (~1000W at low state of charge), whereas with 4Ah or 5Ah batteries it will be fine. Similarly with the Makita electric lawnmowers, which are also rated for about 1200W.

So if you want more wattage you need more cells in a bigger pack. They may be wired for different voltages (the Ego lawnmowers are 2.5Ah @ 56V, I think), but the watt-hours are what's really important. 2.5 x 56 = 140Wh, compared to a Makita 5Ah @ 18V x 2 = 180Wh.

My Makita lawnmower noticably struggles with 4Ah batteries compared to 5Ah.

TLDR: watt hours matter.

listermint · 07-04-2021 2:46pm

jmBuildExt wrote: »

Amp Hours measure battery capacity not "grunt" or power as i think you intended.
So a 4Ah battery will last twice as long as a 2Ah battery in the same tool. The Ah rating has nothing to do with the tool itself, just the amount of time it can supply power to a particular tool (and that amount of time can go up and down depending on how much power the tool is using)

You should have stopped here - this is the answer im giving below in along winded way.

Short answer is it depends on the design of the tool and how much current it will draw from the battery. Read on for the boring bit - Ohm's law lesson incoming

Power has a relationship to voltage, P=VI (where I is current) - so in that sense you might think if I up the voltage of the battery, I up the power. This would be true if you were talking about the same tool (ignoring the fact that the internals may not be designed for 40v).

But the other part of the equation I (current) will depend on the resistance, R inside the device. I=V/R

Putting the 2 formulae together you get P=V²/R

So since R is dictated by the device itself, and we don't know what R is in each tool you haven't enough info to make a call based on what type of battery it uses.

Oddly enough I've a degree in electronic engineering so I'm probably the last person that needs to be thought any formulas in relation to current voltage and resistance.

Thanks though.

My point stands.

jmBuildExt · 07-04-2021 3:08pm

listermint wrote: »

Oddly enough I've a degree in electronic engineering so I'm probably the last person that needs to be thought any formulas in relation to current voltage and resistance.

Thanks though.

My point stands.

So do I and i use it

listermint · 07-04-2021 3:17pm

jmBuildExt wrote: »

So do I and i use it

Grand stuff ! Then you'll know tools will get the full extent of their power longer with higher current rates batteries. Rather than not operating at all well for the same period of time.

So given the difference between the two brands of one bad say 2Ah batteries and the other had 4Ah batteries I'd get the latter.

Lumen · 07-04-2021 3:17pm

I think it's lovely that you're both using your degrees to solve junior cert level science problems. :pac:

listermint · 07-04-2021 3:18pm

Lumen wrote: »

I think it's lovely that you're both using your degrees to solve junior cert level science problems. :pac:

I nearly spit my tea out

jmBuildExt · 07-04-2021 3:18pm

Lumen wrote: »

Ohm's law is all well and good, but in practice what matters is power, and power is determined largely by the size of the battery pack. Each individual cell (usually in 18650 form) is limited in its discharge rate, so the more cells you pack in, the more power the pack can deliver.

A Makita 18V 3Ah battery (for instance) has 10 18650 cells inside, and one of those batteries can push about 800W for about 4 minutes, although more realistically the voltage and wattage will drop as the cells discharge, to perhaps 60% (~500W).

This means if you have a twin-18V tool like a Makita plunge saw that is rated for 1200W, it's going to struggle with twin 3Ah batteries (~1000W at low state of charge), whereas with 4Ah or 5Ah batteries it will be fine. Similarly with the Makita electric lawnmowers, which are also rated for about 1200W.

So if you want more wattage you need more cells in a bigger pack. They may be wired for different voltages (the Ego lawnmowers are 2.5Ah @ 56V, I think), but the watt-hours are what's really important. 2.5 x 56 = 140Wh, compared to a Makita 5Ah @ 18V x 2 = 180Wh.

My Makita lawnmower noticably struggles with 4Ah batteries compared to 5Ah.

TLDR: watt hours matter.

Watt hours is just a different measure of battery capacity.

If you think your appliance work better with higher Ah rated batteries, your batteries are probably damaged.

Look I'm just making the point that you cant judge these things based on the battery voltage alone you have to look at the over all package including the tool involved.

You alluded to it above; what the OP needs to look for is the Power rating of the tool rather than the battery pack it uses.

Bluefoam · 07-04-2021 3:19pm

Tbh, I'd be more inclined to go for a more mainstream brand and focus on a battery platform... I know a few people who bought drills in Aldi or Lidl and have other stuff from elsewhere and now they are just in a dredge of having stuff that doesn't interact...

I have a hammer combi drill, jigsaw, circular saw, strimmer and lawn mower all working off two Makita batteries, and it's such a great system + I only need to keep one set of batteries charged for all my tools.

I don't spend allot on them either. I have camel camel camel alerts set up and only buy when the tool I want goes to a price point I'm happy with.

mloc123 · 07-04-2021 3:31pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

I have a hammer combi drill, jigsaw, circular saw, strimmer and lawn mower all working off two Makita batteries, and it's such a great system + I only need to keep one set of batteries charged for all my tools.

But, you can also do this with the Aldi/Lidl ranges... they use a single battery system now.

jmBuildExt · 07-04-2021 3:33pm

listermint wrote: »

Grand stuff ! Then you'll know tools will get the full extent of their power longer with higher current rates batteries. Rather than not operating at all well for the same period of time.

So given the difference between the two brands of one bad say 2Ah batteries and the other had 4Ah batteries I'd get the latter.

I do know - sure didn't I say it above

Take the aldi or lidl tools last week (cant remember which), they were selling the 2 Ah and 4 Ah batteries to be used in the same tool.

Using one over the other doesn't make it cut any better, just makes it last longer.

listermint wrote: »

No idea but look at the aH of the batteries. 4 plus is the absolute baseline these days for most tools. But some even go up to 12aH for the likes of DeWalt. aH providing the grunt for the motor.

You must have forgotten that above when you said higher Ah gives more "grunt".

listermint · 07-04-2021 3:48pm

jmBuildExt wrote: »

I do know - sure didn't I say it above

Take the aldi or lidl tools last week (cant remember which), they were selling the 2 Ah and 4 Ah batteries to be used in the same tool.

Using one over the other doesn't make it cut any better, just makes it last longer.

You must have forgotten that above when you said higher Ah gives more "grunt".

My DeWalt table saw wouldn't function with a 2aH battery it doesn't have the available power to operate. It needs the higher rating to cut anything. Il stick with my terminology for the forum

Bluefoam · 07-04-2021 3:51pm

mloc123 wrote: »

But, you can also do this with the Aldi/Lidl ranges... they use a single battery system now.

I heard that one of them had changed to a new battery system, so all the tools sold previously had been made obsolete... Also, can you get the tools you want when you walk into the shop or do you have to wait until the week they decide to do a release? Are all of the tools kept in range all the time or do they make them in batches and make them available randomly?

AMKC · 07-04-2021 3:56pm

mloc123 wrote: »

But, you can also do this with the Aldi/Lidl ranges... they use a single battery system now.

Ye untill they change to another brand as they do every couple of years and you are eventually left with useless tools when your batteries die.
That's the way Aldi and lidl work so they can default on paying where they got them ones from and so on. That is how they make there money.
Much better to save up and by a good brand of tool.

garv123 · 07-04-2021 4:18pm

Im planning to do this with Makita, not that expensive on screwfix without batteries.
We have plenty of their gear at work, probably over 60 tools all working off the same 4a and 3a batteries.

witnessmenow · 07-04-2021 4:19pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

I heard that one of them had changed to a new battery system, so all the tools sold previously had been made obsolete... Also, can you get the tools you want when you walk into the shop or do you have to wait until the week they decide to do a release? Are all of the tools kept in range all the time or do they make them in batches and make them available randomly?

Lidl had some 12V tools a few months ago, and their recent batch was 20V, but I'm not sure if one replaced the other as I saw some reviews of the 20V battery that are older than when they last had the 12V ones (I think)

Bluefoam · 07-04-2021 4:32pm

My understanding is that Parkside was contracted to a new factory in China. With that came a new battery design. So their last batch of tools was no longer compatible... So what happens when they start another contract with the next selected factory? Will the parkside tools no longer be supported? History would suggest that that would be the case...

Bosch, Stanley, DeWalt, Makita are unlikely to abandon customers like that...

mloc123 · 07-04-2021 5:07pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

My understanding is that Parkside was contracted to a new factory in China. With that came a new battery design. So their last batch of tools was no longer compatible... So what happens when they start another contract with the next selected factory? Will the parkside tools no longer be supported? History would suggest that that would be the case...

Bosch, Stanley, DeWalt, Makita are unlikely to abandon customers like that...

It probably depends on what you are using the tools for in fairness. An infrequent home DIY'er that can buy a drill, driver, jigsaw and circular saw with a few batteries for the same price as a maybe 1 device and a few batteries from a professional quality brand... it makes sense. Maybe they will use the tools 10 times a year and get years of use from them.

Somebody who uses these tools day in day out, of course they are not going to buy them.

Padre_Pio · 07-04-2021 5:22pm

jmBuildExt wrote: »

You alluded to it above; what the OP needs to look for is the Power rating of the tool rather than the battery pack it uses.

Like lots of things it depends.
As battery technology develops you're going to see higher voltages. Most of this is driven by different form factor cells being able to deliver more current.

A poster mentioned an 18V Makita battery with 10 18650 cells. So that's probably a 5S2P configuration, 5 in series (3.6V per cell x 5 = 18V) 2 in parallel (probably 1Ah per cell x 2 = 2Ah). A 4Ah battery would be a 5S4P configuration.

Easy.

But power isn't everything. Power is volts x amps, so you'd think a 50V @ 2A is the same as 10V @ 10A but that's not the case.

In motors, higher voltage = higher speed and lower power loss (I2R) = faster blades and cheaper motors (less copper) so everyone is bumping up the voltage. Makita are selling 40V battery packs now (they use a larger cell in a 10S1P config, don't bother paralelling), which is probably the limit of what you can safely sell.

So more Ah = more grunt is wrong. More Ah = more longevity and MAYBE more torque, but if you're relying on current for torque you're using the tool wrong. That's how you burn out motors.

(An electrical engineer who designs battery powered motors

)
EDIT: TLDR: I'd buy the 40V.

Discodog · 07-04-2021 9:15pm

I am sort of in a similar position as the OP. I want to settle on either Aldi or Lidl & both seem to have advantages/disadvantages. I have always been pleased with Parkside but Aldi is closer & seems to often have offers on batteries & chargers.

peter_dublin · 13-04-2021 4:44pm

Discodog wrote: »

I am sort of in a similar position as the OP. I want to settle on either Aldi or Lidl & both seem to have advantages/disadvantages. I have always been pleased with Parkside but Aldi is closer & seems to often have offers on batteries & chargers.

Going to stick with Ferrex as they offer 40v tools and their 20v/40v 5AH battery is only €5 more than the smaller 20v 4AH battery Lidl sell.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

fatiherol54 · 07-09-2021 7:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116879998#Comment_116879998

Thanks.

golondrinas · 01-10-2021 10:16am

Great that you can debate the pros and cons of different batteries. When I rock up to my local Aldi ( it only suits me about an hour after they open) the batteries are always gone. I bought a tool about six month ago thinking ah sure they’ll have the batteries shortly. Silly me . I there a shortage of ferrex batteries in Aldi?😣

kabakuyu · 01-10-2021 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962139#Comment_117962139

Do'nt know where you are located, but I always see them in Oranmore, Galway.

Discodog · 01-10-2021 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962139#Comment_117962139

Have you checked that they haven't moved them near the tills ? My Aldi seem to do this tp avoid theft. I think that I have decided to go with Lidl rather than Aldi. I have always found Parkside to be good.

Ferrex 40v vs Parkside 20v Circular Saw.

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