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La Palma, Canary Islands - Volcano Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Kermit...thats like the lava reached something at that point very combustable? Or a new vent? Or both?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Princess Calla




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    Hard to tell from TV stream this morning but seems to be Multiple new lava flows



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Oh! Copernicus updated early this morning. It had been quite behind the progress of the lava, but they managed to generate some imagery twice in 12hrs.

    https://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/list-of-components/EMSR546



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402



    Our sister planet Venus has residual rotation, no spherical deviation between polar and Equator diameters, no plate tectonics, but has the largest volcanic activity among the inner planets.

    The Earth has a rapid rotation, 26 mile spherical deviation, a very dynamic surface crust and volcanic activity, mostly along the crustal boundaries but also in the centre of the plates, Haweii for instance.

    When I proposed differential rotation across latitudes almost two decades ago to account for the symmetrical generation of crust off the Mid Atlantic Ridge, the reaction wasn't rejection, but rather they carelessly threw the kitchen sink at the underlying rotational dynamics which mesh the spherical deviation with plate tectonics. People can still see the mess when it entered the Wikipedia article on plate tectonics.

    Would love to post imaging, however, the petty people who prevent this in this forum have seen to it that is not possible.

    For those who do care, the planetary comparisons work and may I remind people that Alfred Wegener was a meteorologist who used reasoning from all sciences to create a narrative that was rejected by geologists-

    “Scientists still do not appear to understand sufficiently that all earth sciences must contribute evidence toward unveiling the state of our planet in earlier times, and that the truth of the matter can only be reached by combing all this evidence. ... It is only by combing the information furnished by all the earth sciences that we can hope to determine 'truth' here, that is to say, to find the picture that sets out all the known facts in the best arrangement and that therefore has the highest degree of probability. Further, we have to be prepared always for the possibility that each new discovery, no matter what science furnishes it, may modify the conclusions we draw. ”― Alfred Wegener



  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭cheezums


    Oh christ orion has been summoned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Hard to know how things stand in the morning with the light and angle of the sun. Can't see whether the lava flow at the base continues but the mere fact lava emerged there this morning must be alarming locals and no doubt more properties have been lost there.

    Have to wait for a clearer picture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,702 ✭✭✭obi604


    spain are an hour ahead of us but sometimes I look at the live feed at 9am Irish time and it looks really really dark on live feed. Strange



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Someone pointed out earlier the Canaries are the same time zone as us!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭highdef


    That's correct. Mainland Spain is 1 hour ahead of us but the Canary Islands are in the same time zone as us/Ireland. The Canaries are also a fair bit further west than Ireland so sunrise/sunset times are later than Ireland. For example, the sunrise times for Santa Cruz, La Palma Vs Dublin today are 08:04 Vs 07:26 and for sunset it is 19:56 Vs 19:01



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Nearer the equator(&lat re earlier timezone posts)..ash in the air/on ground... landscape shapes different ...less colorful houses etc ....mountain shadow/sun angle.. angle/lens/color contrast/placement of camera/even pyschological situation impact of person viewing event??? No idea but could be one or more of the above. Good morning all :)

    (edit added in brackets..cos i didnt realise you might have missed earlier discussion between posters on mainland spain v canaries re time)

    Still a good morning though :)

    Post edited by speckle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402



    The planet rotates at a rate of 1 degree for every 4 minutes or 15 degrees for each 60 minutes.

    The Canaries are almost 17 degrees West of the Greenwich meridian and therefore about 11 degrees West of Dublin corresponding to 44 minutes later for sunrise. As the Canaries rotates rapidly out of the dark hemisphere of the Earth compared to the slower latitudinal velocity of Dublin, the transition from darkness to daylight is much more rapid on the Canaries compared to the long drawn out dawn at our latitudes.

    When the 17th century Royal Society academics and the experimental theorists decided to shift the rotation away from the stationary/central Sun and towards the daily change in position of the stars instead, they set in motion a divergence between cause and effect including the relationship between one rotation and one 24 hour day/night cycle-

    " It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are [24 hour] days in the year" NASA /Harvard

    It is why nobody can discuss the links between planetary motions and evolutionary geology (earthquakes, plate tectonics, volcanoes, spherical deviation), planetary motions and climate, planetary motions and differences in twilight lengths and multiple other topics of productive and creative research.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭galwaybabe


    It's all going a bit mad at the moment. Looks like the whole mountain is going to blow!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    ^wow..brave filming so near a new lava flow...replys to their twit. post saying its 600m north...not good for the town unless it turns southward downstream.

    On a slightly different note...vegatation there kind of reminds of the west of Ireland. Expected a sheep or two to appear!

    edit now saying 400m

    Post edited by speckle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Abnd a translated update from half an hour ago

    The lava emanating from the Cumbre Vieja volcano, on La Palma, has already gained 19 hectares to the sea, according to the latest update of the European Copernicus terrestrial monitoring satellite system, with data collected at dawn this Friday. The delta created by the main stream is already 50 meters high and 320 meters wide. On its way to the ocean, the magma has destroyed more than 1,000 buildings. The eruption has originated a new mouth and two new lava flows, which, according to forecasts, would run north of the existing one, according to CSIC data, very close to the current one, towards Los Llanos de Aridane, the most populated municipality of the Island. Some neighborhoods in this municipality, in which some 20,000 people live, have already been evacuated and devastated by the magma, as is the case of Todoque. The concentration of sulfur dioxide in the air has increased this Friday in some areas of La Palma, although this does not pose a health risk, says the direction of the Volcanic Emergency Plan of the Canary Islands (Pevolca).

    Also says another 1200 homes/buildings at risk in an earlier update further down page...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    The cloud vortex above the volcano is mad , like a tornado perched on top!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Your 44 minutes later for sunrise does not take into account the variation due to the time of year. Your figure is only correct on the two Equinoxes, but in June the difference is more than two hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    wow...what a close call ...a hopefully rare dangerous working occurance..hope all ok and nerves not too shook...fair dues to the camera operator

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JavierApophis/status/1443904771824422915

    somebody put it on the tube..shame about the music preferred natural sounds




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,845 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    fecking stupid website..... following



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Does anyone know what the prevailing winds are in the area as regards the direction of the ash cloud? I'm curious as to whether it could act similarly to the Saharan Air Layer in shutting down tropical cyclogenesis in the Atlantic by drying out the atmosphere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    They seem to mainly blow down on the villages and town..one day they blew the ash over to Santa Cruz... bush craft bear who films on ridge nne of the volcano most of the time is ok..dont know if that helps... possibly north easterly without looking up windy.com. etc

    edit..that might be just the localised wind condition at the moment. Ash advisorys





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A magnitude 3.6 Earthquake has just been registered near the eruption zone. Shallow depth of 10km.




  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402



    You are out of your depth so go back to your timekeeping over temperatures graph warfare (climate change modelling).

    Timekeeping and that includes the Lat/Long system is based on the rotation of the Earth at a rate of 1 degrees per 4 minutes with each rotation anchored to the sunrise/noon/sunset cycle. Each degree West sees the Sun appear 4 minutes later, regardless of time zones for that, like DST, represents the flexibility of timekeeping along with the Lat/Long system.

    Dublin lost its own time zone exactly 105 years ago on October 1st 1916 or the 25 minute difference representing roughly 6 degrees West of Greenwich. It is why the Canaries will always be 44 minutes later in being 11 degrees West of Dublin even when dawn/twilight lengths vary due to different rotational velocities.

    For too long people rush in without the slightest regard for the physical considerations involved so if I find myself arguing with modelling enthusiasts who firmly believe the Earth doesn't turn once each day/night cycle, I prefer to ignore you and any others who can't affirm basic cause and effect.

    In any case, planetary comparisons between the dynamical traits of Venus and the Earth in terms of geological evolution require accurate rotational velocities across latitudes and that involves less hysterical people who can handle the emergence of the true values. I am sure whatever petty moderator decided to block linked websites must observe with glee but I can't answer to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Looks like part of the cone collapsed on the main dome feed....

    Actually, yes, started 1hr 10 mins ago, if you rewind back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Looks suspicious. New vent coming? Would be completely different direction up to now if it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Nah, I'd say it was just undercut by the actions of the main vent. I presume that's where most of those small stones were coming from as it vented over the last few days.

    But the smoke from the far left of the dome appears to indicate that more of the dome has also been undercut. Presumably it will all fall in on itself as some point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Damn, dark already.

    Why can't they install proper task-lighting on this thing? ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    need to orientate myself before dark. facing the volcano with the sea/new lava delta behind me..

    two smaller vents near the top which are now less activetham the night of the 3 lava fountains

    the bigger monster of one below it that caused the lava to the sea

    one down and left of it newer 400m away

    possible ones emerging further back on the left base of the cone and the left shoulder?

    Any activity on the right?

    edit..found this which clarifys the situation


    Post edited by speckle on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭highdef


    Another way to explain it is that today (according to https://www.timeanddate.com/), solar noon in Dublin was at 12:14 GMT and in Santa Cruz, La Palma it was at 13:00 GMT, a difference of 46 minutes. The time of solar noon does fluctuate so I checked the times for the last day of this month. For Dublin, it's 12:08 GMT and for Santa Cruz, La Palma it is 12:54. It's no coincidence that the difference is 46 minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭highdef


    It's not dark, looks like the aperture on the video camera is locked to a large F-Number.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    whats an F number?I thought it might just have been where the camera was placed. thanks

    Post edited by speckle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402



    Maybe I should have stated that, based on the rotation rate of 1 degree for every 4 minutes, the Sun comes into view 44 minutes later, along the same longitude line as Dublin insofar as Dublin is 6 degrees West of Greenwich while the Canary islands are 17 degrees West.

    He drew attention to a necessary correction and fair dues to him for that notwithstanding, it still requires the correct rotational velocities which connect the 24 hour system with the Lat/Long system through the Earth geography and rotational characteristics.

    As for your uninteresting reaction, seen it all before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,845 ✭✭✭knucklehead6




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Some nice drone footage went up earlier by " the institute of geology and mining" of the vents.

    Is the house that was pretty much on its own island between lava flows still standing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭teddybones


    nope, that house was eaten a few days ago sadly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Ah that's a shame, from some footage you can see some "islands" but too far away to see if a house is there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402



    Really lovely to see a reasonable conversation with plenty of observations and thanks.

    The rotational velocity at La Palma is about 910 mph while it is 620 mph at the latitude of Dublin so that the transition from darkness to daylight is far more rapid on the Canary islands than on the island of Ireland. It explains some of the issues brought up here and although it is well two decades since I first explained it, the current expression based on the angle of the Sun still remains.

    Rotation is built into many Earth sciences from biology to climate to evolutionary geology hence the importance of the topic so many here have fought against for so long.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    f number is related to the size of the camera aperture. Higher f number means a smaller aperture so less light gets to the camera sensor giving a darker image.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    thanks FOAB...makes sense now looking back why other streams were still brighter at the same time..so their f 's must have been lower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Lava is moving fast. Seems less viscous than it was last few days. Can't see the lava channels quite as well because some deep enough valleys carved out now. The lava really spreads once off the mountain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    We were talking about local sunrise and sunset, as measured by looking at your watch. The difference between Ireland and the Canaries varies greatly during the year, despite being in the same timezone. In summer, sunrise here is much earlier, in winter much later. Maybe actually stop and read what someone writes before launching into your copy and paste essay.

    Anyway, enough time wasted off topic in this thread. La Palma is looking mighty scary again tonight.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    It's funny how all of the changes observed in the lava path are effectively rapidly enhanced variations of river erosion in much the same way - deepening of the fast flowing channels through abrasion and attrition, broadening of the channel and creation of serpentine formations on low-lands. The heat effectively dissolves existing rocks and carries them off as a solution. Fascinating in so many ways.



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