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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    theres no question we need them, our modern economy couldnt function without them but, we really need to get serious about them, theres clearly serious problems in regards energy consumption and wealth distribution from their activities, these urgently need to be addressed, or.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I fear we are in for some very very serious political and social turmoil that will pale in comparison to where we are with this today.

    This is just one example of why I think so,

    This is behind a paywall but the gist of it is Brazil are set to increase their herd count by 24 million by 2030 while our green policies aim to reduce our number, which I'm sure is already only a fraction of Brazil's numbers. This is just the same kind of thing as the China coal issue. And how many more similar issue's are there?

    It's just not going to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...but if we continue on a similar path, you can be damn sure it wont work, pointing fingers at other nations, is beyond stupid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,548 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Heard during the week we will have to buy in emergencry generators at a cost of €100 million as back up because wind is unreliable, besides the cost do they think they will run on a bit of clean burning carigeeen moss?

    Not allowing an LNG Terminal is insane, by all means put in place a policy of no fracked gas but the terminal is essential to secure supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,679 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Your response would have been a lot better if it was actually correct. There's nothing wrong with Aghada. It's WG1 at Glanagow that's out of service according to REMIT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Oh and another thing, this insulate Britain crowd have been causing chaos on UK roads in recent days by blocking traffic. This can't go on continually and I often suspected they're going to be a backlash from the general public on these protesters.

    And as if by magic just saw this and I think this is going to become more common.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    If we're in a climate emergency why are the greens not screaming for nuclear plants everywhere?


    They won't be happy until joe soap is back in the 1800s living in a bothán



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    always has been, always will be backlash from protests, but i think a growing number of younger folks have had enough at our none movements in regards environmental damage, so yup, expect more of this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Fair enough , I should have said whitegate ... Slip of the tongue 😜, (currently looking at aghada , whitegate is behind me )

    And I didn't even know Glanagow was the name of the townland ,

    Incidentally if it's Wg1 ,is there a Wg2 ? Or is it just a code to allow for expansion ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The answer to all of those points is the EU and WHO can go and **** themselves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    not at all, theyre just extremely short sighted, theyre a typical political party, theyve little or no connection to the average person



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    How do you mean it's beyond stupid? If we decrease by 200,000 say and Brazil increase by 24 million, then what we do won't make any difference at all anyway. And they may increase even more because we're producing less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    but if we dont decrease, more than likely, everyone keeps increasing, including ourselves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,679 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    No idea, you'd have to ask Centrica or whatever Bord Gais generation is called. Hopefully there will be but who knows?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Look, this is all just absurd.

    If we eat less meat we'll have to eat more crops. If we sow more crops that's more fertilizer and more CO2.

    The only way we can substantially reduce CO2 is to eat less.

    How do you propose we do that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    grow less, purchase less, consume less, currently, roughly 30% of our food heads to landfill, something wrong there!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    That wont happen. As recently as 2020 nuclear energy was being discussed and Moneypoint was identified as the most likely site (although the suggestion was not taken particularly seriously)

    Earlier this year it was announced that Moneypoint will be the base for a €2 billion wind farm off the Clare coast which will be completed in 2 phases, the first coming online in 2030. Moneypoint is due to stop burning coal in 2025 so we may end up sitting in the dark for a few years!




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt



    I totally agree with you about waste. I throw away virtually nothing. Only been the case for the last year or so and yes I did eat too much and is the fundamental reason so many people are so overweight above the eating healthy reason often given. People pack their fridge so when they what to prepare something they have a selection of things to choose from and have something different to eat every day, and the end result is stuff goes off. All it takes is a bit of thought and management, and you can save quite a bit of money as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yep, that's not much of a plan for starters. If it really were that easy we'd have done it by now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    over consumption is far more complex than poor individual choices, even though thats a part of it, we re currently experiencing a catastrophic collapse in economic and pollical ideologies, on both the left and right



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Okay , this one I can answer ,

    If you grow food and eat it you can get the benefit of All those calories ..

    If you grow food and feed it to something else ( a cow , pig ,a chicken ,a salmon or a mushroom ) ,and then you eat that something else ( or its product in the case of milk or eggs ) , then you only get the calories there in ... https://tabledebates.org/research-library/feed-conversion-efficiency-aquaculture-do-we-measure-it-correctly

    I think beef cattle are some where between 6 :1 ,and 10:1 , so if give the animal 6000 calories you should get aprox 1000, I have no idea is that to fork , a live thousand kg animal would probably only give you about 480 kg of a beef carcass , and there'd still be a lot of bone in that ...

    On the other hand cattle should eat mainly grass, and we don't .. plus while cattle aren't very efficient at turning grass to meat , what they don't use (manure) should be returned to the field , so that helps ...

    Pigs and chickens are way more efficient converters of feed - but they tend to eat more of the same things as we can , and it takes way more energy to cultivate harvest and process cereal crops then feed it to pigs or chickens ,and spread the manure , than to grow grass in a continuous pasture , let the cow out to eat it ,and deal with its own manure - ( cows need to be housed and fed in winter though)

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭FitzElla


    The EU or the WHO have nothing to do with our environment and how much we pollute it, that is 100% our own responsibility. If you want to ignore the damage that is being done that's on you, but I would rather we work to protect the environment we do have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Currently they use 11% of national grid capacity, which will rise to almost 30% by the end of the decade. If all data centres proposed are allowed, their energy use would comprise 70% of capacity by 2030, committee to hear. https://twitter.com/JCFJustice/status/1442771740241838082

    As for enormous amounts of employment you mention, well they temporarily employ some in building them, but generally they are automated so don't need many employees to run them.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Maybe someone already brought it up, I haven't read the thread, but what did people think should have happened when Fianna Gael, backed by Fianna Fail signed Ireland up to the Paris Agreement?

    The greens are being used as a punching bag for people to decry any sort of action or initiative which may impact any element of their life. FFS, people are furious at Greta because she is daring to open her mouth without having a feasible solution to the entirety of the problem which will not impact the quality of life of anyone as it is implemented.

    You either think there's a problem, and want to see change, or you don't believe there's a problem (or don't care about it) and don't. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth at the Greens we see on here tells me that it is likely to be the latter.

    If people are worried about the policies 'destroying the country' have you missed the Governments where they went to court to try to make sure Apple didn't have to pay a tax bill of 13B, or when they told Perrigro that they could write down their tax bill by a 1.3B?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,256 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is a take i had not expected to see. also, don't forget that a lot of crops are grown to feed livestock, and feeding crops to livestock to feed to humans is quite inefficient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,464 ✭✭✭✭Blazer



    Nope...what we use is miniscule. You can go the whole per person thing but its nonsense.

    Ireland could suddenly turn off all the power, stop all the cars , slaughter our entire herd , bring our emission rate to zero and it wouldn't even made a dent in emissions.

    Until the big offenders are reined in the whole cutting emissions thing is nonsense.

    But I firmly believe we're close to a cataclysmic collapse within the next 2 decades. If we don't achieve anything of note by 2030 the planet or more to the point humankind is screwed in the long term.


    When China fired up more coal stations in 2020 than all the countries in the world combined then its farcical.

    China is leading the world in new coal power plants, building more than three times as much new coal power capacity as all other countries in the world combined in 2020. It isn’t alone in its reliance on coal, however. China and four other countries, India, Indonesia, Japan and Vietnam, account for more than 80% of the coal power stations planned across the world.

    Now they are leading the world in renewable energy but that's just China....the rest are still miles behind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,843 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    That’s the problem with the greens and their ilk... happy to point out the problems but when you ask them to be proactive and plan and be part of executing and implementing an alternative ....their party is one hell of an echo chamber.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Dana Straight Stoplight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Has anyone explained how the Green are responsible for closing 2 power stations when in opposition?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Those two tax cases are very different. Perrigo were deemed to owe us tax by Revenue and a deal was struck. In Apple's case Revenue had already made the tax decision and that €13bn doesn't belong to us anyway. The court case is challenging our treatment of the income so naturally the government has joined it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,256 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ireland, vs. brazil, the climate change debate:

    ireland: we shouldn't do anything, brazil is way bigger than us.

    brazil: ireland's CO2 per capita is three times that of brazil. let the rich countries curb their excess before preaching to us.



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wind isn't the answer though, unless we also invest in Very Large Batteries to store it for when there isn't any wind, or the wind is too strong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    While the Greens are guilty of being piss poor at governing and functioning, we certainly need Green policies, (maybe not our Greens).

    The run on power has been attributed to Data centers and more are in the works.

    However as with 99.9% of issues, the problem is poor or no planning. We can't put everything on the Greens or even FF/FG, other previous government such as FG/FF are at fault too. The ball should have been rolling on addressing this in advance. Not looking into it a few weeks shy of possible power outages.

    We will be relying on gas and coal plants more now because nobody plans ahead. The Greens are supposed to be on the ball regarding energy needs and alternatives. Seems like they came in with a list and no due diligence. Like the Data centers getting the nod by FF/FG, with nobody looking to see how we'd get on.

    The world is fucked and although our part is infinitesimal, it's important we play our part and do our bit.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Well the other idea for Moneypoint (which was also rejected) was biomass. Not sure if that would have been any better in the long run but they've settled on this wind farm which won't be operational the guts of a decade so that's that I guess



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    It was reputational too. The deal was low taxes for jobs, to whack on a huge tax bill after might make other companies look to alternatives. This is always glossed over by those that bring it up. It’s not giving away money, taking it has a price. One that could cost far more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the wealth from such activities 'trickles down', so cant wait for my trickle down!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    The greens are a joke and that Eamon Ryan a complete muppet. I'm all for the environment but I certainly wouldn't vote for the green party.

    What help to the environment have they ever done whenever they have been in power anyway ,can't think of any.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,528 ✭✭✭✭retalivity




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    So anyone able to explain what the Green Party had to do with the current energy crisis yet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Eamon Ryan doing everything he can to stop LNG imports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I was just about to look for this kind of information as I'm not an expert in this area, so ta for that.

    However the general point I would make is that it's really complicated and this issue is just one issue related to climate change of many.

    It is an argument for people to become vegan which is highly unlikely to happen and how would you work out how many people need to become vegan. And what would you do for milk and eggs no mind the meat. And if alternatives were used for cows milk what would the environment consequences of the alternatives be. That would then be the next target of the environmentalists because productions of the alternatives would have to increase.

    The other day I was listening to a conversation about bathroom products, shampoo, conditioners, kitchen products also. That's another area that's being targeted. Suggestions were you could use vinegar to condition your hair.

    So it's going to be never ending. Every facet of what we consume is under attack and the only way the environmentalists are going to be satisfied is if we all live like hippies. It's just not going to happen.

    I'm all for doing as much as we can reduce pollution but it can only be reduced to a level and emissions can only be reduced to a level, but would that be enough to stall climate change anyway? Minefield of an issue.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,256 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    IIRC a hectare of hazel trees in south east england produces ~10 times the calorie content in hazelnuts that a hectare under beef production does in ireland. there's a few ifs, buts and maybes there (which could throw the figure in either direction) but i AFAIK t's beyond doubt that using land to produce beef is probably one of the most wasteful uses of land there is in terms of producing food.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There are a lot of different opinions among environmentalists. Yes, you will have the extremes who will say we should only walk, cycle or use public transport and all cars should be banned, then you would have the others who will say that aeroplanes are fine if they could use renewables or hydrogen. Same with food, some vegans, others looking at artificial meat as a solution.

    So there is a spectrum of opinion. What government needs to do is pick out the most sensible policies from these.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Floating is unproven, but throw enough subsidies at it and those claiming uit is brilliant will be happy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    I agree with the OP, I don’t see how me freezing half to death throughout the winter whilst the greens in their brand new build passive houses stay toasty warm is fair. Since when is manufacturing a brand new car ‘greener’ than keeping an existing one running? I’m interested in local environment, preserving wild areas to improve the citizens quality of life as well as retaining what biodiversity we have left. Climate change is not going to be stopped by Europe, we should be diverting all of our resources into becoming more self sufficient and insulated from the global shocks that are coming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,843 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We now in the main consume what we ‘need’ food wise.... breakfast, lunch and dinner, odd snack... I don’t throw out much food, as I’d imagine most households don’t.. i don’t get stuff for the sake of it, that’s just wasting money.

    the greens will want to reexamine their blight on this country and do something useful like tackling the root causes...Agriculture as per 2018 figures were responsible for 32.7 % greenhouse gas emissions in this country. Yet the agri sector simply does nothing but pay lip service to the environment and the issues it / we face...they refer to being called out on it as per their website ‘the blame game’... convenient. The greens are all but silent on this yet they are literally screaming at ordinary Joe Soaps to do more, pollute less and sacrifice greatly... so like every party in this country the greens instead of looking at business people and them fûcking up the environment for profit are maintaining their stance with the guns at the heads of the ordinary Irish person... if I drive a Rang Rover I’m the bad guy but the farmer next door with one it’s probably ok because.. “ ohh for work “



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    we should be diverting all of our resources into becoming more self sufficient and insulated from the global shocks that are coming.

    This may seem like a an exaggerated dramatic statement, but an isolate approach to Global warming mitigation will result in more pain and suffering through conflict at a regional level, if not an outright global one as America and probably China look to secure resources.

    Isolation leads people to basolving themselves on all sides using the argument, 'we can't do enough, so why should we try' or 'why should we do something when they aren't doing anything' as each country looks for a way out rather than the shared responsibility and holding people accountable which is intended through common agreements.

    The 'ourselves only' type of political strategising is not going to end well, for anyone involved, the only question is will it be within 10 years or 100 that the price will have to be paid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Really! That's nuts.

    So roasted hazelnuts with Yorkshire pudding on Sundays then? Followed by some hazelnut ice cream. Oh wait, no we won't have any cream. Just hazelnuts then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Oh yes, of course! China is destroying the global environment so you know what, let's all join in. Just **** it all. Bright future ahead for humanity with that mindset alright.

    And 'hysteria'? Are you for real? Most people have barely modified their lifestyle at all to help to any great degree. The planet's eco systems are still in rapid decline due to the unbridled level of consumption in the West of clothing, international shipments, technology, transport, building construction and food such as meat and the extremely varied internationally sourced diet. We need a whole lot more hysteria considering the **** storm that is our current environmental reality if we are to stand even the slightest chance, wayy to much discussion , we need swift action.



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