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"Green" policies are destroying this country

12467663

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    All car manufacturers did lie, just VW went to the US and the US car companies funded against them as they grew market share, the software was made by Bosch(I think) who supply all car manufacturers, if you google you will find they all done the same



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    The plan I heard at an event many many years ago by an Irish company and was been supported by Europe at the time, not sure what happened it

    European super grid, large wind farms in the North Sea along with solar panel in the med. this would also have other supplies from each country

    This combined with smart meter and the plan was to have balanced grid, no more of these peaks and dips…..like they explained in uk that eveyone is watching that Baking show and at break turn on kettle and they have a peak for a min, this is very hard on grid so make it cheaper not to turn on kettle at break etc

    Electrci cars would be connected at night to charge but if a peak could have electricity sucked out if connected at office location during work hours etc…..in terms of recycling if you have a couple of million existing wind turbine and you want a replacement I am sure some company can make it, throwing hands up in air and saying they are obsolete shouldn’t happen



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007



    What about, what about… and going backwards are not options that are acceptable to the majority of voters. And that is what it comes down to, politicians do what will get them elected and addressing climate issues is what is required and what will be required for the foreseeable future.

    Stamping your feet and shouting what about… what about is kindergarten behavior, so either come up with practical, applicable solutions or expect others to conclude that you are the one exhibiting the behavior you are attributing to others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is a stunning post, you seem to be outlining the problem, how it is backed by science, has escalated and yet seem to think nothing should be done or that all of the people involved in this are not acting in good faith?

    A really bizarre post. It's 2.24am here, maybe I'll read it tomorrow after I've slept and it will make sense in some way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    People can see the disaster, get told about it, then still complain when the government tries to tackle it.

    You have the “diesel till I die crows” etc etc. I would prefer to leave a better world for my kids than the one I came into if possible. Not leave a **** hole that they can’t have a proper life in



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    Yes, climate change HAS become a religion and religion brings its share of fanatics (XR, Insulate Britain, Thornberg) and a witch hunt of those who don't go along with their "infallible" beliefs.

    Yes, OP, gullible is the right description. As proven during Covid the Irish believed every word that came out of the mouth of an egomaniac who ruled the country based on the wildly speculative and totally inaccurate predictions of his snake oil fortune teller going under the grand title of "Chair of the Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group".

    The majority of the country will not have experienced long power cuts before.

    When their phones are suddenly not working, their Internet idle, no Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter, no Netflix, food decaying in their fridges, no heat, not to mention not being able to even boil a kettle I hope they will finally come to understanding the folly of replacing proven and reliable generating technology by a system that only works when the wind blows.

    No human beings have the power to foretell the future, no human beings have the power to stop the forces of Nature - no matter how many diplomas they have, no matter how many letters after their name or whatever grand titles they hold.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yeah, this 'pastureland is better for the climate than woodlands' trope has taken off recently. i believe in large part through discounting methane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72



    Bit of cop on now, if you want to ignore intelligent people all over the world who are predicting this then off you go, you should also ignore teh increase in climate disasters etc

    Not sure why you think you should insult the intelligence Irish people because you have a different opinion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    No human beings have the power to foretell the future, no human beings have the power to stop the forces of Nature - no matter how many diplomas they have, no matter how many letters after their name or whatever grand titles they hold.

    The increasing life expectancy over the last couple of hundred years, plus the figures of those who have recovered from previously considered terminal illnesses destroys this nonsensical way of thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,443 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    wouldnt worry too much about this poster, theyve been posting debunked beliefs about environmental issues since forever



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    That's my biggest fear about Nuclear. I think the actual technology is safer than it has ever been, but I would not trust anyone connected with an Irish Government to build and run it.

    It would be millions of billions of trillions of Euro over budget, the bricks would be made from micra and the foundations based on lumps of pyrite ...... all while no one in particular had any specific responsibility for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The reality of that can be seen in wind turbine output on May 1st 2021 when there was little wind anywhere across NorthWest Europe and solar power is irrelevant after sunset (grid balancing needed due to sudden dip in output, that's why they have to put in batteries to smooth out dips until coal and gas plants can be bought online) and for 2 months of the year during Northern hemisphere Winter season (look at Germany) solar is irrelevant. The continental European grid has narrowly avoided serious outages several times last year, it is already stretched and Germany has been shutting down coal and nuclear power. Irish authorities are creating a 500KM interconnector to France to avail of nuclear power. Remember peak demand for electricity happens in Winter and very often we get severe cold fronts hanging over much of Western Europe.

    You gave an analogy of the kettle during the ad break, guess what will happen with electric cars (BEV). It takes 30 minutes to fast charge a car, you arrive at a charging station all the chargers are occupied, you wait at minimum 30 minutes or even longer for the people in front of you to charge which means an hour or more hanging around the forecourt. Since most of your travels are commuting, you decide to charge at home, so you arrive home at 6:30 - 7 PM and plug in the car to charge overnight ready for the next day, so does everyone else . . . nope that's not going to happen, that's why we have smart meters to reduce demand.

    Remember European governments goals by 2030 are to shift the majority of the population from consuming primary energy sources (oil,gas,coal,turf) to secondary source (electricity) and the same plan is being imposed across European countries who are also phasing out the old coal and nuclear plants so there is no reserve in the system.

    • 70% random energy
    • just under ~1 million BEVs
    • ~400,000 heat pumps


    This is what needs to happen to avoid future substantial economic disruption due to the lack of electricity.

    • An immediate suspension by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU) till further notice of Renewable Electricity Support System auction (RESS) auctions. If wind turbine or solar panel operators want to build new sites, let them do so without guaranteed subsidies.
    • An "intermittentcy surcharge" to be imposed on wind and solar power, so that they pay the cost of providing standby power.
    • A rule insisting that all new wind and solar plants include sufficient storage to supply nameplate capacity for, say, one week.
    • Abolition of carbon pricing, which has distorted market mechanisms, and is largely responsible across Europe for the massive rise in energy prices this year.
    • Immediate suspension of moves to electric cars and heat pumps.
    • Abandoning strategic plans which rely heavily on imported power, and replacement with plans which prioritise the provision of sufficient, reliable home grown power.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    this post is a marvelous example of self refuting nonsense

    ‘no human can forecast the future’

    encased in a rant about how people will feel in a future where x happens because of y



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You are completely ignoring the issues created by fossil fuel use.

    Your argument would have been similar to telling people to continue smoking irrespective of the known consequences just so as to not impact the tax revenue that came from tobacco sales.

    Can you answer the following?

    • Do you believe there are issues with the use of fossil fuels which will significantly impact the climate and the quality of life of people in the near future?
    • How do you propose to limit this potential impact?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The new narrative? No you should confront and report your a$$hole neighbour

    and the fact that your neighbour is killing prostitutes doesn’t make it ok for you to go around kicking dogs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why are subsidies for renewable energy bad but you never mention the trillions that fossil fuels get in subsidies all the time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    The majority of electric cars will be charged during the night to balance the grid at night, the fast charger during the day can be included in capacity and can be slowly ramped up and down as people with electric cars will tell you, plugging into a 50kWh doesn’t mean you get 50kWh….it will go up and down based on supply but also battery temp etc….for slow charging the cars are all on timers and with a smart meter you could be told what time to start/stop at night and with the new ranges people don’t need to charge every night….they offer cheaper charging even now on a Saturday during the day when requirements are low…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I am also saying electric cars are not for everyone, in some cases diesel should be the choice, not just the automatic choice for everyone like happened for years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If we fail to act, Climate change will make everything more much expensive. Anything we can do to prevent additional warming will be cheaper in the long run than having to rebuild everything from scratch to try (at no guarantee of success) to adapt to the new rapidly changing climate


    government borrowing, by definition affects future tax payers, so we need to weigh up the cost to future citizens of action vs inaction



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yep. Right now a lot of our energy generation capacity is simply wasted. BEVs can tap into this wasted potential for net zero cost to the peak grid demand



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,601 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The energy crisis in Europe is going to be profound this winter and into the next. I suspect there will be a clamour in various countries for Government’s to step in and put a cap on price increases.

    The only way to achieve this will be to suspend carbon taxes. Watch this space I reckon. Probably be floated as a temporary measure.

    There is a growing media frenzy over 15-20% increase in consumer energy costs. It’s worth bearing in mind that wholesale prices are up 300% on last year and trending upwards. There are potentially far more severe consumer price increases to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It would be much better for governments to increase carbon taxes and give people a helicopter payment to offset those increases

    Carbon taxes are not about generating income, they’re about disincentives for burning carbon

    if carbon taxes were projected to be 1000 per capita and the government gave a 1k per capita payment to every family to offset this, many families would spend that money on energy efficiency improvements while almost everyone would also reduce wasteful carbon emissions to avoid the tax



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,443 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    absolutely agree, pup payments have more or less proven, giving citizens money directly is far more beneficial to all, in particular the economy itself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Methane form livestock isn't as big an issue as there is a natural methane cycle, there is no no real carbon cycle...

    Also what the cows consume is an issue but that is mainly stateside with corn raised cows



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    If the government fixed the existing seai grant system it might help, at the moment the money just goes into the back pocket of the contractor and the buyer sees no benefit, it’s stupid system


    A heat pump costs 2k average but to install into a retrofit Is 10k after the grant, so the contracter is taking something close to 13-15 per installation, f**king crazy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Suspending carbon tax should be ruled out straight away, if money has to be invested then it should be into green initiatives and not just ploughing money into dead technology



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,601 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    You don’t need to explain carbon taxes to me. I know their intended purpose in terms of reshaping the market.

    The reality is there is now a huge imbalance in the European energy market. A perfect storm has brewed whereby demand is way above what was forecast, reliability and availability of renewables is way below what was forecasted and demand for traditional fuel mixes is up - while at the same time facing heavier and heavier taxing.

    I suspect we will see large investment in renewables being floated alongside relief on carbon taxes to bridge the gap and close the imbalance in the short term.

    The crisis on the electricity grid in Europe is so bad that distributors are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain their target frequencies on their respective networks. That is just totally unheard of. If you think people are angry now, wait until electrical appliances in their homes start being damaged as a result of an unstable grid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    A lot of over reaction here, the world is not going to end, devices are not going to start exploding etc etc

    the grid are highly monitored now and the option to shut them down will be taken before that and that is the right option, the wastage of electricity in homes daily is incredible, a couple of cheap smart plugs to switch on/off devices etc would be a decent investment…..solar panel on roofs etc etc



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  • Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    to think little Ireland can save the world, meanwhile China is opening a dozen coal powered plants in 2021 alone

    It's like being told you can't fish from the shore with a rod and line while 5km offshore a ship is hoovering entire shoals from the sea bed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,601 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Totally understand where you are coming from, but as we’ve seen already with investment in renewables it takes time for such investment to work through the market and impact consumers - i.e years. Meanwhile, consumers could see their electricity bills double by the new year (if they follow wholesale prices they’ll at least triple). If Government’s need to find immediate relief, where do you think they’ll look?

    Just my 2 cents anyway. Maybe the market will sort itself out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,443 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    all important to remember, the abilities of the market to be able to provide us with all our needs is clearly untrue, we must be mature now and accept this, even though markets will need to play a critical part in trying to do so, but not entirely



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,601 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The option to avoid this is rolling blackouts of course. They’ll be very popular politically at the height of winter across Europe, right?!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    It’s not like people haven’t been warned, global warming was announced in what the 80s?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how



    If it's left to the market to sort itself out, it will end in Armageddon with companies buying out smaller operators, heavily utilising lobbyists and grabbing what they can to ensure they get to maximise what they can before there is nothing left.

    The airline industry reacted to the Covid impact on their business by looking for government handouts. Previously we've seen the financial industry do the same.

    This conversation is not even an ordinary 'product life cycle' market one and how the changing supply chain or customer focus may impact an industry. There is active damage being done with this ongoing industry and that should be the primary focus of Governments because it is going to be so impactful.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    We think the little savings in energy consumption will inspire shithole countries to saving the planet.

    Eamon Ryan and Roderick O'Gorman have these Notions that think that people in places like Nigeria, Russia, Phillipines, Brazil, Indonesia will just adapt to the Euro-Western Way of reducing your quality of life to save the planet.

    I'll tell you right now it won't effing happen. If the leaders of any of these countries start introducing carbon taxes, driving up petrol prices, electricity shortages etc, it ain't going to be a strongly worded letter being sent, it's military coups and lynch mobs.

    Massive countries like Nigeria, Congo, Bangladesh, parts of India etc are barely functioning, let alone going to reduce their carbon footprint. If workers are not able to go work because of the price costs of buses or driving cars or their moped to work, it will be off to the local politicians office to beat the crap out of them.

    The Roddy O'Gormans, Eamon Ryan's of this world do not understand the world outside of Renelagh and Phibsborough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭BobHopeless


    Eamon Ryan wouldn't know the real world if it hit him in the face. He's better off sticking to cleaning his glasses with his Covid mask. Green policies are rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,443 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ireland isnt that bad, i certainly wouldnt call it a sh1thole



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So don't try anything, and let the whole thing play out whatever the impact on the billions on the planet would be your approach would that be fair to say?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    By "dead technology" you mean proven technology that provides the energy we need as opposed to ploughing more money into initiatives for eco-grift


    But you're right, with the climate disaster-crisis-holocaust upon us we should be investing in nuclear to save the planet, because saving the planet is the priority here, yeah?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    But you're right, with the climate disaster-crisis-holocaust upon us we should be investing in nuclear to save the planet, because saving the planet is the priority here, yeah?

    Is that a serious question?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 Johnlynch1970


    who in their right mind voted for these lunatics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    People with some concept of forward planning I'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭BobHopeless


    What's this "saving the planet" nonsense? The planet will be fine. We are a dot on the planet's existence, it will be still here in millions of years when we are long gone. Saving the planet, give me a frecking break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    We think the little savings in energy consumption will inspire shithole countries to saving the planet.

    Exactly. It's like expecting Afghanistan to become a democratic secular state off the example of the UK. If anything some states will look to those in the West and do the complete opposite. Like eastern European countries saying they're not having any of that lgbt political stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭BobHopeless


    It will the D4 luverlie types who can afford the solar panels, the heat regen systems, the top of the line home insulation projects all the while the 4 ton SUV is used to transport Tarquin and Sorcha to and from private school daily in between the family ski trips to Chamonix without a hint of self awareness,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    they're not having any of that lgbt political stuff.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you gay?

    Do you think the ability to have freedom to have a relationship with who you choose to, even if they are of the same gender as you is 'political stuff'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Why can't some more control be introduced at a consumer level?

    Why don't we have low voltage energy options to light our homes at night - separate led circuit with stored battery power charged by small windmill?, more widespread easier/cheaper use of solar water heating? rainwater recovery systems used for toilet flushing to reduce water processing demand (why are we flushing fully treated drinking water anyway?). Why is there hardly any use of community heating schemes in this country? Why is there no physical 'off' switch on practically every electrical appliance that you can buy .... everything has a sleeping 'standby' mode with associated led burning through the night and appliances wasting energy waiting on input that never comes, while also shortening their operating life as the power supply capacitors dry out. Why do different council areas have different recycle policies and options - some take items that others don't , some charge for items that others don't? Why are green bins (recycle) coloured blue in the midlands and the domestic refuse (non recycle) bin is green - seems like a minor pedantic point, but when you then get told on the news to put your soft plastics in your green bin - there lies a confusion problem that simply shouldn't exist in what should be a nationally managed and operated system.

    Despite being among the very first countries up to declare a national climate emergency... we are not dealing with environmental and energy issues on a national basis - set up one super environmental and energy department, give someone with a bit of cop and clout the total responsibility and get it done. The only option we seem to be considering seriously, is to try and catch up on large scale generation after years of not having a plan and then also using the big tax and price increase stick to beat consumers into using less energy, that they will then be charged more for, because since we were forced to give up our nationally managed service and hand the market over to private enterprise, profits have to be made.

    The issues are too big to expect companies motivated by profit to get us out of the problems we are in - unless we are prepared to be continually fleeced in the process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,817 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I wouldn't trust the Irish developer set, doing it on the cheap whilst sniggerring up their sleeves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I would put saving the planet pretty high up myself now, actually no I would put it top of the agenda



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