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Solar PV Hints, Tips & Troubleshooting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    My home theatre setup has a 1.5kW usage!!!! Thirsty baby

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Jasus! I thought I heard something last night. Was that your yoke? :-) hehe

    When the HTPC, soundbar & TV is on for me it's about 400-500watts, but even at 60 watts idle that thing added up. 60watts x 24hr = 1.2Kwhr/day = ~20 cent /day = €6/month. Simple scheduled task in Windows to "shutdown -s" at 2am and then have the BIOS auto-start at 6pm and.... €4 in my back burner. :-)



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    I created a separate thread about Solar PV and Home Insurance, but I haven't had any replies... So I'm going to be really cheeky and bump it here. 😉





  • Registered Users Posts: 45,427 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Depends on his usage.

    A 5kW battery would get me through the night during summer months with ease.

    As a separate point, going solar has really highlighted to me how much power/money I was wasting during the night with things on standby.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    Once I started measuring appliances I did noticed this also. Stand by does added up at the end of the month. I have installed smart plugs with monitoring a while ago and have configured automation to power the appliances down if they are idling for 10 mins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    When I first stated out with solar I was given the option of a 3.5kw battery and 14 panels. My attitude is its better to look at it than for it, ended up with 16 panels and a 7kw battery. The battery easily gets us through the night and that's because of our personal setup.

    The best thing in my view of having a good size battery is the ability to charge it on night rate during the winter and have it for discharge on the bad days.

    Now 2 plus years its 20 panels with a 10.5kw battery, all I can say is Fuxk you winter and power cuts I'm ready for ya. (I hope)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    Nice system, need to win the lotto and get a bigger roof or more land!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    The credit union Jesus im not a millionaire 😃



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    But given current house prices I would need to be!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭trackdaychamp


    Hi All, we have a commercial building that we'll be moving our company to soon. Just put a new roof on it with Kingspan quad core 150mm panels for good insulation. Pitched roof has about 78 square metres East facing and 78 square metres West facing. Not sure of pitch angle. We'll be working 9am-5.30pm (upstairs only at 150sqm, downstairs will be rented out) and our EV will be at the building at times during the day, not all day. Not sure of our KWH usage as current building has Air Conditioning so I presume that skews current usage upwards. Heating in new building will be high efficiency gas combi (will be buying that soon) so no hot water storage. 12 desks + pc's etc.

    I have a RECI that I trust and insured trades that could work on roof. Any advice on following please?

    • presume battery is not worth it for me? our working hours are the 4-6 hrs either side of noon. EV will act as the battery with Zappi charger when I am there
    • should I plaster lots of the roof in PV? we have the space and our limited company can write off the vat, the money is there. Where do I stop?
    • What rough/simple steps could I show RECI + roofer for install? Or is there a good link to steps involved after we buy from wholesale like MidSummer or SolarTricity. I want to show RECI + roofer that it's not too difficult...

    Thanks in advance



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    I have PMd a good installer, on a job like that they would be done and dusted in one day, two tops. Roof work is there bread and butter.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    It's most likely a steel roof then? Steel roofs are really easy to install, just screw the brackets straight to it.

    If it's walkable it's around 12, any steeper walking is dangerous/difficult.

    Do you have 3 phase or single phase

    If single your max is a 6kw inverter, 11kw on 3* you can (and should) oversize the panels esp on an east west, I have 8.6kw of panels on a 6kw inverter.

    *Officially that's the max, people have put in more with export limiting and such - your milage may vary!

    Price the battery, but your most likely right it's not worth it.

    I think solar comes into accelerated capital allowances too so can be wrote off in 1year instead of 8.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The plan, I believe, is that there will soon be an expedited process for allowing export of up to 50 kW for smallish commercial rooftop projects like yours.

    I would talk to one of the large suppliers about your project. They may offer sone financial support (They have a quota of projects they must support under the energy efficiency obligation scheme.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    156sqm of roof is a good bit. You will of course need to leave some margin around the edges but let us say you can use 60sqm on either side. At current efficiency ratings you get ~200W rated power per sq.m. So a theoretical max would be 24kWp. This is likely overkill for your own needs. But I don't know! Try and figure out how much power you would be consuming on average. Then note that solar produces a lot more in May/June than in Dec/Jan. Try and put enough panels on that you can cover your needs on cloudy summer day or a sunny day in late October. You will be producing more than you can use on a sunny summer day but that's ok.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭trackdaychamp


    Thanks Graememk. We have 3 phase so 11kw max inverter by the sounds of above? Should I have one inverter for East and one inverter for West if I'm putting loads of panels up there? It's a composite roof panel and I just checked Kingspan website for quad core product but I can't see if outer bit is steel. I'll also check the pitch angle on roof. I believe 30-40 degrees is optimal or is that only for south facing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭trackdaychamp


    Thanks Antoin. When you mention large suppliers, do you mean the project co-ordinators on a community SEAI scheme (they cover some commercial buildings) or someone like SolarTricity or Midsummer type wholesaler? What is getting me excited is the potential with electric cars on our fleet. If we had a really sunny day and lots of panels plus Zappi charger then we could pump in a lot of juice into the EV. The car can receive 11kwh max via AC charger



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Really depends on the Inverter, you can get 3 phase ones 20kw+. Also inverters can handle multiple strings

    As for the slope, I wouldn't worry about it, just work with what you got.

    Higher angles on east west will suffer in winter but gain in the summer.

    Depending on what the roofer says, you might be better off with traditional rails.

    Panels themselves are straight forward to put up and plug them together, as with most things prep and getting everything ready is the most time consuming, but makes everything else a breeze.

    I've had experience with solartricity, they would be able to build a package for you with all you need.

    You may be pushing into where getting an outfit with more experience with bigger projects would be beneficial - they might be able to work with your spark and roofer.

    Even if you don't fill the roof right now, it can always be expanded later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    No the EEOS obliges suppliers (by which I mean suppliers of electricity) to support a certain amount of initiatives every year. It’s different from SEAI funding, though it is administered (but not funded) by SEAI.

    You just have to find the best way to do it if I were you I would try to find someone to manage and maybe even finance the whole thing for you. Others will disagree!

    in the end it’s a financial calculation — you have to make sure that this project doesn’t cause you any trouble to set up or run but that you can be assured will give you electricity cheaper than just buying from the grid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭trackdaychamp


    I was in touch with Solartricity today and one other supplier/fitter that was recommended to me on here (thanks MAULBROOK). One question I was thinking about. Let's say I fill the roof of commercial building with PV and it was a chunky 24kw array size. The lower floor of the building will be rented out by us (no idea who yet as our own fit out upstairs is still going on). I was going to put the ground floor on it's own electric metre (or not depending on next bit). Let's say we on the upper floor will have first priority on PV generated power then Zappi for our EV is next, is there some way to send power to tenant below but keep a record for charging purposes before anything is exported? If there was a record of units sent to tenant, then I would match whatever cost for market rate of electricity at the time. Is that possible in a technical sense?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    Cant see why not an internal meter to charge the tenants and the main meter of the building will be in your control. Darrell should be able to sort something out for you. Or

    Or two inverters, split the the panels into two separate producers, One for you and one for them of one roof space. Yes more cost but they can be written off tax wise maybe.

    Just a thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Carrying on this discussion in the right thread. No I didn't mean Unkel. Also see graememk's real world measurements here: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977182#Comment_117977182

    Also note th figures you are quoting are for discharge losses. You also have losses when charging the battery and most battery manufacturers typically don't disclose those. You have to consider round-trip efficiency which is why I split efficiency into 2.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    initial tests was about 5% on charge and 15% on discharge i think... or the other way around.. Need to start logging the DC power from the bms!


    I have always had a thought, that the hybrid inverters put everything to AC and then convert back to DC to charge the battery. Cant find any tear downs or schematics.

    @irishchris you have a hybrid inverter and a normal inverter dont you? Could you run a test for me?

    If your normal inverter is producing excess, and you turn your solar panels of your hybrid inverter off, will the excess from the normal inverter be put into the battery ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I don't know enough if I'm honest about these AC batteries and their characteristics. I mean sure, under the hood I believe they are still the same cells that we know, so I'm somewhat skeptical when I see figures in the 90+% mentioned. There's some immutable laws-of-physics there that I have always taken for years to be "a given" that 85% was a good battery, and that 80% wasn't a bad one. To hear 90% mentioned, and above.....we'll see. That's why i went with 85% as my "roundtrip loss" in my original figures.

    For sure - once my one arrives, I'll do a test on it lads. Even if it costs me €1.50

    I'm sure I can come up with a useful load for the duration :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Folks, what kind of money would I be looking at to get a decent array on a 2000SQFT newbuild(Bungalow)?

    • underfloor heating and A2W. I have only started exploring solar. Would ideally like to mount on rear roof only(South facing) and later on a largeish country garage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭championc


    The first thing is to get the roofer to install brackets on the roof. Do this even if you don't go ahead with solar right now.

    You should possibly look at a 6kWp system. You won't qualify for the grant afaik but your sparks should be able to buy the inverter and panels at trade prices (at least 20% below list) from midsummer.ie or solartricity.ie

    You should be able to do it close to €1k per kWp. A 6kWp system should cover your base load on cloudy days and give plenty for an EV or hot water on good days



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭thomas 123



    Thanks for this!

    So looking at 6K for panels only or does that/should that include all the rest of the kit? Excluding batteries I assume.

    I would love one of those systems that can utilize the excess power if any. I am wondering how far 10-15K might get me. I do have the option of upping the mortgage for it - which in theory should save more electricity cost then I would pay extra in the mortgage according to some videos I was watching last night!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    When championc mention 6kWp it's kiloWattpotential not Euros. If you want an indication of cost look at the Quotes thread (long read) to get an idea, just look at say, the last 10 pages as sometime we wander off track. Another way is to just phone a PV installer and get a quote

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    An expenditure of 10-15k would get you very far but spending that much may not necessarily save you money in the long run. Look at the quotes thread. A 6kWp system withut a battery should cost you 7k or so. You can add a battery to it but that bumps the cost. An 8.2kWh Givenergy battery for example costs about 3500. Look at midsummer https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy Also look at other brands. Note that an installer would get trade prices and the prices on the website are before any VAT and in GBP. If you are brave you can go for a DIY battery - or get s sparks to connect it up for you. See separate thread for that. With a DIY battery you should be able to get a 20kWh battery for 2.5k or so and that should mean effectively zero bills for four months of the year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    Give the lads I PMd you with. They will point you in the right direction.



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