Mica Redress

The cap of 350k is no problems for the modest homes and the semi-detatched in estates.

The taxpayers could provide two or three houses for people sleeping on the streets for the cost of rebuilding a McMansion that was originally built by direct labour on the cheap with shoddy materials.

Because there is this money tree growing at the back of Leinster House, and €3.2 billion can be picked from it at any time, and there will be more than enough left for 100,000 social houses. 🙄

Whatever this scheme costs will be spread over many years, maybe up to 20yrs, so in the long run when you consider everything else the government will waste money on in the next 2 decades, I see this as a decent expense. Plus they will recoup quite a bit back in taxes, vat etc.

Once again your response has no weight. "It's nonsense" is not an argument. Your Nigerian prince reference is immature.

The working group reps didn't even know there was a delegation going to the European Commission so no-one is begging because "the case is very weak" as you state. One group is trying to negotiate directly with the government to get what they can for homeowners in the short term. The other group sees that these negotiations arent going to produce what is needed to fix all homes and have taken the first step to get justice and full compensation under EU legislation.

You can keep shouting "nonsense" all you want. Time will tell what can be done under EU law.

Will try those in order.

1) The people fixed first are the ones whose home might not see out another winter or serious storm without collapsing. Some houses are very very bad, and you can pull away the walls with your hands. Then other houses are only showing the initial signs of cracking, and may be a decade or so before they need fixed. The issue is, the sooner you fix them, the less the chance of the damage affecting the inner leaf.

2) I see no issue with LPT. I think we should all pay it. SF have made many promises of what they will do if in power, and the way this current coalition is going, they might get to prove their point to us all sooner than we think.

3) Replacing only the outer leaf is a controversial topic. A lot of the Gov experts and council engineers want this done as its the cheaper option (although why its being costed at 220k I'll never know, I know people who did it themselves and the labour cost maybe 15k), but most independent engineers won't stand over it, as there is no guarantee the inner leaf and the foundations will not be affected by damp and freeze/thaw. If the scheme was to replace outer leaf now for huge money, and then the inner leaf starts to crack in 10yrs, and the house has to be demolished and rebuilt, then the money spent initially on the outer leaf only was wasted. Its also been reported that those who got their cavities pumped with beads have actually helped the damp move between the 2 leaves of the house, and probably made the problem worse. And finally, some of the worst affected Mica homes do show serious internal damage too. Many homes are letting water in inside, and many internal walls are crumbling and pvc windows not fitting correctly any more.

4) The initial quarry was one in Buncrana. They were the largest supplier of blocks in Donegal. Their blocks were also bought in by other quarries during boom times, so many people thought their homes were grand because they didn't use the original quarry, but then found out they actually had the bad blocks. The earlier house showing signs of Mica is 28yrs old I think. And as for when it stopped! Well there is the 64 million Euro question! The council and Government first were told about crumbling blocks in 2013/14, but its looks like there was no investigation and the quarry continued to churn out the defective blocks up until recently. I read the other day that a block from August 2020 was found to have 15% Mica content. The spec is often argued. I have heard 1% is the upper limit, and I have also heard there is no upper limit. Believe who you want to believe on that one. Its as clear as mud. As for houses in NI, well recently when al this broke, Derry City council said they did a review of their housing stock and none were affected. But that doesn't mean there aren't private homes, businesses and other buildings which may have used that quarrys blocks. There would be a massive trade between Derry/Tyrone and Donegal, and its easy to think that many Donegal blocks made their way into the North. In fact, coming out of Strabane on the road to Derry, there was a detached house I saw maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I said "that house has Mica".

Because the Government is meant to regulate the industry and ensure that materials being produced are fit for purpose. They didn't.

Give me a few examples that are more deserving that perhaps 10,000 families homes literally falling down and leaving them homeless?

Funny how taxpayers money is always limited when its being spent on something certain people don't agree with. There was no limited amount of money to fund the PUP for folk to sit on their arses watching Netflix for a year, and we now hear that it was completely mismanaged and many got far too much given to them. There was no shortage of money when we had to get 64bn to save the banks. There is no shortage of money when we get a quote for a hospital yet inside a couple of years the real price is 500% higher. There was no shortage when Dublin properties had Pyrite and all the owners were given 100% of the cost as well as money for storage and rent while out of their homes.

The MICA issue is as deserving as anything else that is happening or has happened. Its an issue that is wrecking thousands of peoples lives, and not to even think what its doing to the mental health of many of them.

Sometimes this is what you pay your taxes for, for Governments to do good with.

What about the money we send abroad in foreign aid, think thats around 1bn annually. We get nothing from that, yet we still do it.

We live in a society where people pay taxes and the Gov use them. The homeowners affected by Mica paid their taxes when building their homes. They pay VAT, income tax etc like everyone else. And the nature of a functioning society is that when 10,000 citizens need helping, they are helped as best as the state can.

If we didn't , why even build social housing? Why pay people PUP? Why give people fuel allowance? By your reckoning we should just tell everyone "hard luck, you're on your own".

Thankfully we don't live in the society you want to live in.

I didn't say the undeserving poor, I was pointing out how Gov taxes are used for the betterment of society, to help those in need.

And there are currently potentially 10,000 Irish families in severe need of help which they can't fund themselves. The first thing you said was homeless people, well there will be a lot more homeless people in the state if the Mica issue isn't sorted.

Thats where the social contract comes into play, which we are all in as taxpayers. I know you might not like 'your money' getting used to fix crumbling homes, but thankfully the government have seen that they need to act and are trying to sort the problem as best they can. There are some things I don't want my taxes being used for, but hey what are you gonna do?

Just to address some topics raised.

Foreign aid buys global soft power whilst also helping those who have nothing. It's not money sent away for no reason.

PUP made sure the country didn't fall on its knees economically during a global disaster if it needs to be pointed out why it was needed and the fact we are pulling out of the period without an incredible economic collapse shows that it worked. A few people always try to get rich on a scheme. (I'd imagine mica would be no different so that was a silly point to raise)

The majority of people wanted that hospital built elsewhere outside the M50 ring it's a farce from start to finish as is the Vincent's hospital site. I don't think you'll find any takers disagreeing with you.

Once again the 350k is more than Reasonable and the outer leaf debate. If a government engineer clears the fixes then that should be enough. You can find any independent engineer to say what you like tbh and most won't certify anything if it's a public issue and they've to put their name on it. Ducking away from an issue where they can make easy money elsewhere surveying houses.

A recent poll showed that most of an already squeezed middle Ireland is fully behind 100% redress.

Any chance you could stop repeating falsehoods? I don't live in a McMansion. My house is crumbling down around me. It wasn't built on the cheap. No one knew at the time (except possibly the manufacturer) that the blocks were shíte. My builder is in the same situation. His house is also falling apart.

'the winners'? There's no winners in this situation. People have already replaced their outer leaf and now their inner walls are cracking. My inner walls are cracking. I have to look at it every day. It's horrible.

Okay. Why are there checks on hygiene standards in restaurants? The taxpayer is not meant to 'ensure' that...are they?

Good man. Post up a copy of the complaint letter you sent to the politicians.

And there we have it. The people whose houses are falling down around them are now just "random people". That single comment serves to illustrate the level of ingorence in this thread.

Lol 😂

Yes obviously that is what going to Europe is about. Accountability is being included.

Cases are coming to the High Court soon about compensation AND IS 465. As has happened before with other IS legislation when the case gets thrown out by our courts Irish citizens have to go to Europe for justice. It has happened and will continue to happen. I find it the attitude here very dismissive / defeatist but I guess it suits the narrative of people who dont want a proper scheme in place. Not just some headline of 350k being thrown around. That figure includes all kinds of conditions that will exclude the majority of people from finishing the scheme or being forced to accept a substandard "repair" for their home. It's well documented by now for anyone that can be bothered to look but it's easier to just pretend everyone who fills in a form on the council website magically gets a 350k cheque to spend on marble fireplaces, high spec kitchens and triple glazing.

What country do you think you live in? Does anyone on here think Irish courts will hold anyone to account without being forced to by Europe?

1. The working group arent the ones going to Europe. Ive explained this already.

2. Its costs nothing to go to Europe if they back your case once it fails in our courts. All it takes is at least 1 person/group to go to the High Court first.

3. Thats a pretty poor response. Anything actually worth reading to add here? At least you used the word "may" and didn't pretend you somehow know for sure it wont happen as some other posters have stated.