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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Should I cite information from wind turbines in 1954?

    I like the idea of using reservoirs for energy storage but this seems like a pipe dream to me. You are claiming that this is a far more viable and financially prudent solution. However, where are the details on the reservoir sites, the construction cost and maintenance cost, the environmental cost of pumping saline into the hills, of relocating communities. Seems risky to me, untried and untested sites , what happens if we have leakage issues? Buying energy via interconnector introduces more dependence. So while you worry about our dependence on uranium imports, you don't seem to have an issue with direct power imports(which ironically the french will be selling us nuclear power). The loss of energy from long distance conduction in interconnects. The idea is novel and interesting but is it developed enough to consider it a proof of concept? Nuclear is tried and tested, it would be part of a hierarchy of power sources including wind but as a direct substitute for the fossil fuel element. Major western economies still rely heavily on nuclear power, the upfront cost is very high but they can produce for decades. I think I would have to see a balance of all estimates for the "Spirit of Ireland Project" including "initial analysis of sites, buying land, building dams, maintaining dams, loss through electrical conduction via large interconnect and of course evaporation, building enough wind infrastructure and buying sites and environmental impact, market risk of importing power from the continent and environmental impact of creating large salt lakes"



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There is a website discussing the proposals, i advocate reading it. The bottom line with Renewables are that they become more reliable the bigger the interconnected network. The is the strategic plan been built across Europe as we speak and Wiki has a nice map of the built and proposed HVDC network linking all corners of Europe. The recent opening of a HVDC line from Norway to the UK shows what is possible and means that Norway who have invested almost all their North Sea Oil revenues into wind and hydro can export their significant excess and become earners of revenue. This is what is available to Ireland through projects such as Spirit of Ireland. In such a scenario we would be importing and exporting renewables from as far afield as North Africa and the Russian stepps. All technically possible with current technology and the knock on benefit is that an interdependent world is a more secure one since the costs of conflict are amplified.

    I have little issue with importing French Nuclear overnight to sell back to the French in peak demand times, but installing a single watt of Nuclear on Irish soil is costly folly which fortunately will never happen. Nuclear is old dead technology which can no longer obtain finance because of its implicit costs and a total inability to insure against its risks - renewables have overtaken it and all the sensible investment money is acting on this inevitability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    I didn't realise that there were as many of these data centres around and a lot more to come by the looks of things, did anyone query the electric usage of these or would that be too much to expect of those granting planning permission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So when the Greens are gone from next election, and even though I vote Green I want them gone completely with no seats from next Dail, just to see who rural Ireland and the angry boardsies will blame for all the Green climate agenda stuff when they're gone.

    I would imagine they'll still blame the Greens though, even when it wasn't the Greens I knew it was the Greens. FG/FF/Sinn Fein or whoever aren't just going to ignore the climate bill and whatever measures are agreed at COP26 happening pretty soon.

    One way or another a lot needs to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Brid Smith and Barrett are best left outside the Dail while the rest of them get to work. I thought at one stage Brid would be useful but she hung around with Barrett etc too long and was more interested in talking about Leo's jacket than real politics.

    You might have got meat but you didn't get the quantity you are currently served up today. In reality what I got as a child in terms of meat, if I looked at my kids plates now they are getting double to what I got.

    We had a lot more vegetables on the plate to fill up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So what if he needs to draw from the mains occasionally? I’ve no idea where the rest of your arguments come from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The problem I see is all the mixed messaging. Turf burning being just one example.

    We fought a mini war with farrmers over cutting turf for the sake of the planet and now we are importing it. People were told diesel was the way to go, and that has been a disaster on numerous levels. At one stage wood pellets were the way to go, even though or home grown timber was so high in moisture content the pellets had to transported half way around the world or our home grow dried to the level where it took more energy to dry it as it produced, and now burning timber is a no no in any form anyway.

    In all those cases we had the zealots telling us those were the ways to go. Some believed them and got burned, while many others looked on and saw them getting burned. Or in the case of diesel where practically everyone got sucked in. Nobody is denying climate change, but can you blame them for being very wary of large financial layouts on green energy systems based on the theories of the same zealots. Especially when the figures from them vary so much and going down the road we have been is now threatening Winter blackouts on top of rising carbon taxes to pay for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    no but certainly no drawbacks anyway, am still very active and can lift heavy etc.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Replacing beef, dairy and other meat production with vegetables means leaving vast tracts of land that does produce right now with land that can produce nothing much, or nothing at all.



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  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Btw according to eirgrid this morning renewables, mostly wind, was 76% of demand and bet imports was -14%, so we were exporting 14% of demand. That’s pretty successful already with very little offshore developed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Arealred


    100 per cent agree. Its important that rural voters highlight the stupidity of the Greens policies at every opportunity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭tommybrees


    No I said an animal out grazing grass is about as natural as things get.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    With the cost of energy, heating oil and the appalling weather where I live I am going flying out of Ireland for the next 6 months, I can rent a nice one bedroom apartment for €350-€375 per month and my house will bring this in every week. I won't see temps below 28-30c for the entire time. Everything will be cheaper and I can work from home abroad. I am in the process of getting a mobile home installed on some farmland to act as my summer home when I'd come back from Mid-April onwards. Short days, incessant non-stop rain, extreme costs, a rural depressing existence is triggering the move. I met a man from Norway years ago in Thailand and he was doing the same thing and said the cost of heating his home for winter would nearly keep him in Thailand the same time. No wonder it is so popular with Nordic people due them getting no daylight for months.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,431 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no, you said you can't think of anything more natural.

    "I can't think of anything more natural to be honest than animals grazing in a field."



  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭tommybrees


    replying to the comment that said there's nothing natural about cattle in a field or sheep grazing on a hill.

    Of course there's more natural things, what are you trying to contribute to this debate?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    with a growing economy, you must have a growing population, and in order to keep the whole show on the road, you must also include immigration into that, or the whole thing would probably collapse. theres plenty of land to build houses, we just havent had the will to truly do it, it was noted during the previous crash that we were quickly running out of houses, particularly in the dublin region, but we effectively decided it would be best to do fcuk all about it, so here we are! you ll also find the immigrants had pretty much fcuk all to do with that, nice scapegoats though, along with the welfare classes. house prices virtually have fcuk all to do with those scape goats also, its primary due to the fcuked up political and economic ideologies we ve been chasing for decades, which are ultimately based in doing whatever it takes to continually drive up the price of property and land, again, go us!

    will agree with in regards gardai resources and services stretched, again, another fcuked up part of those ideologies, i.e. defund by as many different approaches as possible such as austerity etc, but again, its always nice to have scapegoats about, such as those mentioned. again, i will agree in regards workers getting fcuked in all of this, thats another fcuked up part of those ideologies again, i.e. continually fcuk over those working, and make sure to point the blame towards the scapegoats, works a charm!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Green party themselves are a quasi-religious cult with a puritanical outlook, shouldn't be let anywhere



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    This is not really the case, if we consumed less beef and mutton/lamb we could do extensive farming in the marginal land in the west of Ireland. Extensive farming such as that demonstrated in the Burren Life project produces high quality meat in lower quantities but also helps preserve a bio-diverse habitat which has developed over thousands of years in Ireland. So less meat, more veg, better farm habitats and some land left over for re-wilding. The only thing you loose is export earnings which the current unsustainable model produces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    They're the same technology in the sense that my Avensis is the the same technology as a Lamborghini.

    The maximum discharge rate of the LiFePO4 battery I'm looking at in my house right now cannot boil a kettle without help from the grid.

    If your plan is to instal the equivalent of an EV battery in everyone's home in addition to carpeting every roof with solar panels, we might have to revisit that €20B I quoted earlier. Perhaps triple or quadruple it. Don't forget it's a recurring cost. Panels and batteries have a lifespan.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,431 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    or else we could just leave that marginal land to nature? probably less issues with flooding nearer the coasts as the water won't sheet off the land, and as it is we're basically paying farmers farming marginal land to lose money anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    How does this re-wilding work, like who pays for it? I have land that I have let out to another farmer at the moment but if someone was to pay me the same as I'm getting now I would have no problem with letting some of it that has gone a bit rough out for rewilding. win, win for everyone.

    So who do I contact about this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Whoever configured your LiFePo4 battery bank was a fool since I can draw 30Amps min at whatever voltage I choose out of a correctly setup parallel bank. I could arc weld with a correctly configured battery bank. I could run an electric oven, a microwave and just about any modern appliance short of an electric shower. If not abused (which should never happen with a BMS) has a life expectancy of 10years before it is down to 80% of its original capacity, relaistically that gives it a useful life of at least 15years.


    I hate misinformation to make a dubious point.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the “only thing” is a big thing.


    We export far more than we consume in beef or meat, so we are massively reducing the income of farmers and the calorie intake of everybody abroad who consumes calories via Irish meat produce. So other countries have to engage in more intensive agriculture, and crop land is intensive.

    besides all that the EU has recently penned or is about to pen trade agreements with Mercursor and Canada, which means we will be replacing Irish beef with beef sourced from the other side of the world.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We should revisit that anyway, show us your workings out of you haven’t already. I might have missed it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,648 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Exactly, what options do the sector of society have that buy their home heating oil by the 5 gallon drum?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    exactly, why does every inch of land have to be used to produce food mostly for export, at the expense of our biodiversity and water quality?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`m not a major fan of intensive livestock farming, but going back to the old traditional way will result in higher prices. Not something people will want to hear on top of increased carbon taxes.

    It`s a bit of a myth that by re-wilding land everything will be honky dory. Sheep were banned from grazing many mountain uplands some years back as a conservation level. Problem was that sheep keep heather under control and uncontroled heather growth in wet weather holds a lot of water. The resulting lanslides caused an about turn.

    Just another example of what looked like a good idea, after causing a lot of discord, going tits up from not listening to the people who actually knew the areas not being listened too by those that thought they knew best.



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