Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

If the Social Democrats were in Sinn Fein's place

1234579

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This is a strong possiblity. Only for Martin, who will be gone by the next election, SF and FF would have done a deal after the last election.

    The radical Shinners will hate it as they will see it as diluting the Northern influence and playing down the Republican "cause", but it may be the best route to government for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    And the radical members of FF, 'the republican party' will sign up no bother?

    Be difficult for all members of any party.

    I think the SD's were against having anything to do with FF/FG so if they were in SF's place, as the thread asks, we would be where we are now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FF have gone into coalition with nearly every party in the State, under a different leader they would have no problem with SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Probably not. 'Radical' was amusing. Like calling the Pope a radical catholic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 204 ✭✭Repo101


    Do people really believe voting in a different party will result in change? The problem in Ireland is that a radical shift is needed but the people are against any real change. Politics is completely unaccountable in this country much like the civil service. You can effectively do what you want as long as the boat isn't rocked too much. We have serious issues with pensions, debt, health, housing and energy but we are paralysed as a nation due to the majority of people in this country being more interested in themselves than the national interest.

    We mock and scorn the US and UK for their politicians but our political class are the bottom of the barrel. Irish people have more of an interest in US/UK politics than what is happening on the ground here. Having worked for a company that does research for some of the bigger parties, it's very easy to see why Ireland is in such a mess. The majority of people either don't care or aren't interested, even if some are interested that interest will pass within a month of a particular topic or scandal. They all know this which is why someone like Micheal Martin can become the leader of this country. It's embarrassing and you all should be embarrassed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,936 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Accountability is happening, just look what is going on with the guards right now. It looks like the guards are going to getting a makeover from top to bottom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    not a hope. I dont think you fully understand SF



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    If we had said in 1985 that SF would be in a power sharing executive with the DUP at some stage in the future the response would also be 'not a hope'.

    SF are a lot more similar to FF than they are to the DUP I think you will agree



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    completely and utterly different scenario. it took a peace process to get SF and the unionists in the one place. What I do see happening is FF failing to pieces and SF collecting a lot of their support - but not the two parties joining hands and becoming one. If you think that then you really dont have much of a clue of how the average shinner thinks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It won't be down to the "average shinner". The thing is, Sinn Fein need to expand their support base beyond the exclusionary nationalists and the permanently outraged. The permanently outraged get jobs and worry about other things, while the exclusionary nationalists grow up or grow old.

    There might be enough to sustain them in the next election, but after that, especially if they go into government, they need to develop something else. A reverse takeover of FF offers them the opportunity to become the dominant populist party and maybe even dream of governing on their own. Would mean dropping the sharp edges, both in terms of policy and people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    They did that last election. You keep painting them as niche or other when they are the most popular party in the country based on the last general election.

    On average their vote count is rising and the FF/FG ones falling. You're blinded by hate.

    The more we see housing and health decline, likely the better SF and SD will do.

    The Greens will be down to one or two seats, I'll be surprised if FF do as well as FG did last time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    is this blanch152 who has repeatedly told us SF will lose support? Consistently wrong on that one you now are trying to sell this FF + SF = One Party rubbish? Hilarious stuff


    Anything like thats WILL be down to the 'average shinner'. Sinn Fein have this thing called 'democracy' where party members can influence what the party does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152



    You say that "Anything like thats WILL be down to the 'average shinner'. Sinn Fein have this thing called 'democracy' where party members can influence what the party does."

    Now that is truly hilarious stuff. I don't think anyone has ever seen this thing called "democracy" in action within Sinn Fein. Is that the one where you agree to do what you're told in return for not being kneecapped or taken down a lane in County Louth and beaten to death with shovels?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    Another off topic shinner rant.

    I'd hate to see SF dirty themselves by partnering up with FF, but it's stone cold fact that FF and FG are joined at the hip. Be very entertaining to hear them try throw mud at each other come the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,936 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Loved the mud throwing before the last election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Last time I checked, this was a Sinn Fein thread, so how is mentioning them off-topic???

    Someone alluded to democracy in Sinn Fein, like the rest of the world, I laughed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,406 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Well it is a SF AND Social Democrats thread so I think it should be said that the SDs (as far as we are aware) have never dragged anyone down and alley and knee capped them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Of course, and that explains why the world would have been different for government-forming if the Social Democrats had swapped places with Sinn Fein after the last election.

    They would have been credible leaders of a left-wing government.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    When SF take power in Ireland it will be a seismic political event.

    They will push extremely hard for a border poll, and even if it doesn't come for a few years, the momentum for it will be too strong to ignore. It'll just have to be held, or it'll look terribly anti democratic and that would lead to unrest.

    The border poll may or may not pass, but if it does we are in for a huge historic change. Disaffected unionists, who may not be ready for constitutional change, are going to have to be dealt with.

    On another note, it's past time for FF and FG to amalgamate, the differences between the parties are too small to justify being separated, given there are other options now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    SF drag people down alleyways and kneecap them? jaysus - youve some imagination



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    How would it be terribly undemocratic if a Sinn Fein government in the South is refused a border poll in the North, which the people of the North don't want?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Well the majority of people surveyed in opinion polls in the North do want one. That could possibly turn around, but it probably won't. I think it's much more likely that a border poll will fail than that it won't be held.

    Partition is going to become a major political issue in the south, and I don't think the kind of approach taken by FF and FG is going to be suitable for the coming years. There's going to have to be some genuine planning done for constitutional change, the demographics make it very unlikely the status quo will remain. It'd suit the south if it did, but it probably won't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I support the conversation being had, it will bring home to people what a mammoth task it is, and the huge cost involved for taxpayers, and maybe that will bring a dose of reality. The doe-eyed green-tinged fairytale of a united Ireland of milk and honey paid for with taxes on unicorns and rainbows needs to be put under a harsh light.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Serious discussions are going to have to happen, no sign yet of FF or FG wanting to have them.

    . I doubt many people think post reunification would be a land of milk and honey, it will be problematic, the unionist population and their culture will need to be catered for. Plus the northern economy is very weak. I still think the south will vote for reunification, but the north is potentially problematic if the vote passes there. How would unionism accept such a defeat?


    While the Belfast Agreement was a huge success, which ended a conflict that had seen thousands of people die, unfortunately the years since have not seen reconciliation and the North is extremely divided. It's mad when you compare it to the South, the division is so stark. In an ideal world a border poll would happen in a less divided atmosphere. But it's unlikely now, it probably will happen this decade in a very acrimonious atmosphere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Support for nationalist parties in the North is declining, as is support for unionist parties. There are effectively three minorities now. The minority in the middle won't vote for change that will bring huge disruption unless there are clear benefits. The taxpayer in the South can't afford the clear benefits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    The doe-eyed green-tinged fairytale of a united Ireland of milk and honey paid for with taxes on unicorns and rainbows needs to be put under a harsh light.

    Nobody thinks like this. This is an ignorant line thrown out by people unwilling to take differing opinions on board.

    Can I ask what the hell any of this has to do with the SD's being in SF's position?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,230 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I don't know, I was just answering another poster. However, it is about Sinn Fein and the differences to the SDs



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    It's actually about the Social Democrats being the main opposition, being in SF's place.



Advertisement