Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Civil Servant Covid Recognition

12346

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The fact that the PUP payment is regarded as some sort of great achievement really shows how low expectations are. The pandemic was managed here by passively setting rules and hoping the population follow them. Our test and trace system didn't work very well. We ended up with more restrictions and a higher number of cases than for example Germany. In Germany they had freely available antigen testing all over the place to allow indoor dining among other things way earlier than here.

    Any comment on the Property Registration Authority above? We have no idea how many other departments (other than anecdotally) were off or on reduced hours. What we do know is that many services provided by the state were not running at certain times. The lack of respect for the PS really stems from the quality of services provided. Of course we don't know exactly what the issues are, but we can see the money go in and the rubbish coming out.

    As an example of the level of IT in the PS, look at the HSE hack in the summer? Also, what about the fact that the software used to report cases couldn't handle about 2k I think it was initially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    You going to ignore the fact you've been looking fro people to give you and others credit for their work? There's plenty of examples there of you asking for it when you said you didn't...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you took me asking YOU specifically to give Passport Office staff some credit for their work, including those who worked 18 hour days, 7 days a week at the beginning of the pandemic on repatriating people home - after you had said they were sitting at home on their arses doing nothing, when in fact the opposite was true, as me looking for personal credit?

    Credit, which you then point blank refused to give those staff, despite "making a mistake" as you yourself admitted.

    Again, with the mental gymnastics.

    It seems you have difficulty following responses properly.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @HerrKuehn

    Any comment on the Property Registration Authority above? We have no idea how many other departments (other than anecdotally) were off or on reduced hours. What we do know is that many services provided by the state were not running at certain times. The lack of respect for the PS really stems from the quality of services provided. Of course we don't know exactly what the issues are, but we can see the money go in and the rubbish coming out.

    Yes, I have actually.

    I see this as no different as any private sector company that had its workload greatly reduced but kept paying their employees by claiming EWSS.

    I don't see anyone complaining about those staff receiving full wage for less work.

    Restrictions were put in place on some public services due to public health guidelines, this was not the fault of the employees - and many who could not continue working at full capacity were subject to redeployment to other areas. Again, the example of the Passport Office staff applies here.

    I don't work for the HSE, so have no insight into their infrastructure or IT systems and as for the track and trace system, I don't think any country actually got that right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    You said you never looked for people to be given credit when it's shown you did you try to deny it. Again why are you so obsessed with everyone having to give civil/public servants credit?

    Should guards get credit for sitting in a squad car at Covid check points? Or teachers for not teaching? There's more than enough examples to show they weren't doing it. Healthcare workers who didn;t deal with Covid at all. What about those in Departments like housing, rural or the Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport to name some. Where they all working full hours, Because if we go by what you say they're the only ones who were working.

    Like i said tell yourself what ever you like if it makes you feel better



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh they can send emails with multiple attachments alright.

    To do so, they upload each attachment one by one. First one .. then the next one .. then the next one .. then the next one.

    Not knowing multiple files can be selected at once. You know, basic IT literacy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh just put down the shovel for gods sake. You're boring me now.

    I'd bet you'd be the first one crying out for a Nurse or a Garda in an emergency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    It's a simple question to answer.

    Well seeing as it's their job to respond to emergency's i would hope they'd do something about it so that's quite an odd statement to make....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Was the EWSS not capped at €350 a week, with no payment to anyone on more than €1400 a week?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Plenty? One example was given! the PRA, which sounded like an organisation that didn't have the tech infrastructure to allow WFH, and didn't have the office space to allow all staff into the office, so what else could they do for that interim period?


    Where are the other "plenty of examples" that you mentioned?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ah the gossipy WhatsApp groups who think they know everything. Do you think that EVERY parent in the class thinks it's a good idea to share details of whatever extra help and support with a bunch of judgy parents?

    I hope that the teacher liaison shared full details of all the gossip about the teachers with the teachers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    We have no idea what the extent was across the entire PS. There would have been no examples if Marc MacSharry didn't ask the question in the dail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    There's literally a full conversation about teachers a few pages back. If you want to ignore that then that's you're problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    What about the examples of teachers ignoring parents when they contacted them? Or are you going to pretend that didn't happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Yep us mammys do share info - we communicate together as a group for the good of our children and to support each other. We are not afraid to share info regarding our children - I am very open that my child is dyslexic as are other parents in the class groups regarding their kids difficulties. By sharing info we help each other - After all we all want the best for our children.

    Post edited by Deeec on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level, and beat you with their experience." - Mark Twain



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    Well you'd have a lot of experience of ignoring people working in the civil service. So you're calling yourself stupid then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    The group was started by the teacher. The teacher requested volunteers to be the liaisons.

    It might come as a surprise to you, but some people actually like their jobs and want to do them to the best of their abilities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I agree, but not everyone agrees with it. Not all parents share the same feelings on sharing of information.


    My Son suddenly dropped out of school for 2 weeks because of an emergency surgical operation that was needed last week. Do we now need to tell everyone that he had surgery so we don't have tongues wagging that he's had Covid



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Wisdom is often times nearer when we stoop than when we soar”

    William Wordsworth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭Deeec


    You don't have to say anything. I find in these situations it's better to be honest. I don't see why you wouldn't share the situation with your son. Chances are everyone knows anyway. His friends probably know why your son isn't in school and have told everyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You seem to be confused between "a conversation" and actual facts. I'll have to assume that you were spoofing about the "plenty of examples".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And just to be clear, you're speaking for ALL Mammies there, and you're confident that there are no Mammies out there with different opinions to you?

    BTW, a lack of disagreement from others to the bossy, cliquey mammies who run these groups does not mean that everyone agrees. It just means that others can't be arsed with explaining concepts like privacy and confidentiality.

    Post edited by AndrewJRenko on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Why I wouldn't share my sons situation?


    Privacy? Nobody else's business. Naturally his friend does know as do the school in an official sence, but we tend not to wish to broadcast information like that. So if there a WhatsApp group of 20 or 30 people I wouldn't want to let the world know

    It's not a big deal either way for me to be honest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    Chances are you have no idea about what you don't know. Don't assume that everyone blabs about private medical information.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Obviously you’ve loads of respect for parents. Of course fathers have no interest in their children’s day to day education. Wimmins work, is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Andy you seem to have a HUGE chip on your shoulder. Relax a little!

    We share relevant information which is helpful to each other. Parents also chat at the school gates, at birthday party and play date picks ups and drop offs which isnt any different really to whats app groups. Most people dont have a problem discussing their children - the good and the bad. If someone wants to remain private noone has a problem with that either - most people want to discuss stuff though.

    Try talking to your kids friends parents sometimes - you may actually find it helpful. You may actually then understand more about real life and not be talking nonsense on boards.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agreed.


    I'm one of those public health background workers and I deserve feck all extra. I worked from home, yes, like thousands of others.

    To be fair, everyone in my department is singing from the same hymn-sheet. We did our jobs, like always, just from home. The only thing we did get was a slightly earlier vaccine because we do have to make regular calls into care centres.

    Nurses and Paramedics to porters and cleaners however? It would be easy enough to split out the actual frontliners and give them a meaningful bonus. Dealing with a once in a 100 years pandemic is not "Just doing their jobs". They ran exceptionally higher risk than almost anyone else did. Seeing nurses have to isolate away from their partners and kids for weeks, because of a global PPE shortage. Seeing them have to work multiple extra shifts because of staff numbers depressed through infection/exposure.

    It is the height of Irish begrudgery to complain about massive government mismanagement in the health service, causing misspend and resource misallocation. All causing actual frontline workers to be understaffed, in regular times, to THEN complain that these same understaffed workers held the health service together through sacrificing their own physical/mental wellbeing when a Once-in-a-century event happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Some people talk, some people don't. I'm very familiar with the school gate scenario, though mine are older now. I'm also very familiar with the cliques that emerge and the parents who don't get invited to the coffee chats and who's kids don't get invited to playdates. WhatsApp group traffic are not a measure of consensus.

    I wasn't the one who brought up 'mammies', so take out your condescension on the other poster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You can come up with as many mythical scenarios as you like, it doesn't change the facts. Unless you are that teacher's principal, you don't know what work they are doing or aren't doing, you don't know whether the teacher is out on sick leave or other leave. You just don't know.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭square ball



    Just wondering what kinda work you did during the pandemic?

    The government decided to throw money at the pandemic and weren't pushed about the result. They should have stopped the PUP when they reopened the country. Places are closing down now because they can't get staff. These issues were flagged from day 1 by staff working with the Department.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,564 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    DPER issued a circular that there would be no overtime or time off in lieu for those working from home.

    But the job still needed to be done and in many cases it took longer when out of the office, especially early on when procedures were still being worked out.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your employer’s position on working beyond contracted hours seems clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    If they didn't keep paying the PUP you'd have those silver spoon socialists screaming that the most vulnerable were being left behind


    Of course there is a fine balance between the 2, but I know anecdotally of more that half a dozen that should never have received the PUP in the first instance, and more that did but never signed off at the appropriate time.

    To counter this, the government had to make people feel that they were being protected by the state going into and during the pandemic. Lots will hurl from the ditch afterwards

    Voters will decide if they were successful.

    Post edited by AckwelFoley on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    Are you saying then that the comments here and elsewhere from parents etc are lies? Do you also think a principal is going to say anythng other then they were all working?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    I'm nearly as sick listening to all the chat about bonus / recognition/ bank holiday as I am about Covid at this stage

    The only recognition in my opinion is to the staff of hospitals . Everyone else needs to get over themselves

    There were teachers who went above and beyond, also those who did sweet FA

    There were civil servants who went above and beyond, also those who did sweet FA

    This happens all the time in every career

    On one hand people giving out about PUP payments going to the wrong people etc, giving out about the government spending and yet people jumping on the band wagon and looking for a handout



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    How much more actual facts do you need than people telling you actually happened? Unless of coure you're calling then lairs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    'Actual facts' tend to have some kind of validation or verification. You don't get to post something here and call it an 'actual fact'.

    But regardless of your attempt to turn this into a personal issue, no parent knows exactly what any particular was doing or not doing. That's an assumption, not a fact.

    So where are your 'plenty of examples' gone?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The fact that many kids did not receive tuition during times when schools were closed due to Covid is not an assumption, nor is the assumption that teachers who did nothing for their students were actually working a fact. What is an unarguable fact is that many kids did not receive tuition, and as tuition is the clearest expression of a teacher doing the job they are paid to do, it is a very fair assumption that they were not in fact doing their job.

    I’m assuming you can understand that Andrew, unfortunately though, that is not a fact, so here is a simpler question: If an active teacher isn’t teaching/communicating/ supporting/preparing their students, whatever way you want to describe their work practices, they are not doing what they are tasked/paid to do, what other work would they be doing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They could be sick, for example, with Covid for example. They could be doing other duties assigned by the principal, such as preparing materials or providing 1:1 support.

    There's probably another fifty options that I haven't thought of too.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    My god. People have posted their own actual experiences here and that's still not good enough for you?

    Again there here for you to see but you just chose to ignore them.

    Anyway this is going nowhere so i'm not going to reposed to you anymore. It;s here for you to see if you don't want to see it well that's your own problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So you never had 'plenty of examples' in the first place. Good to have cleared that up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In the case of illness, the Principal or teacher would inform students/parents of their absence, irrespective of the 50 other ridiculous options you can think of, the function of a teacher is to provide tuition, if they are not doing it, the parents/students should be informed why.

    Would you expect parents/students to accept being told that a teacher who didn’t show up for class for 3 months and left students without tuition was “doing other duties”? Of course not, this is more obfuscation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭Deeec


    A teacher's job is to teach all the kids in their class. I am as a parent saying that this didn't happen during lockdown so they were not doing their job end of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Parents/students don't get to be informed 'why' of anything. The 'why' is none of their business. Yes, they would normally be advised if there is an absence, and who knows what happened in the cases mentioned above. Let's not run away with ourselves on one-sided stories by people with an axe to grind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    Lets try one more time. The examples are here in this topic and others. You just refuse to accept them.

    'One sided stories funny. You're the who only wants to hear one side of the story.

    So tell us are you a primary or secondary school teacher?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    Don't waste your time no matter what you say he'll never accept it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I completely agree. I think Andy is best ignored - he's just trying to wind us up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This really is ridiculous.

    Of course a principal would have to inform parents if their kids were left without a teacher for 3 months, they would not divulge the nature of the illness, only that the teacher is unable to attend class. Having had school going kids for 25 yrs, they of course were informed when teachers were absent,

    To think that a teacher could be doing “other duties” for 3 months leaving kids without tuition, and still be considered teaching is just bonkers.

    Please tell us all, reassure us that you are not a teacher.

    I hate this new site, I really miss the ignore tab.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cms88


    By his logic if a child has or is a close contact of someone whit Covid then it's none of the teachers business..



Advertisement