"Green" policies are destroying this country

Tell me how · 05-10-2021 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980133#Comment_117980133

Should the media not report on the comments of one of the key players in providing electricity in Ireland? Link

These included a warning from EirGrid that data centres had sought 1,000 MW of additional power in the space of 12 months, at a time when total energy demand in Ireland was 5,500 MW.

EirGrid had also called for a review of data centre policy and said the centres would represent up to a third of all electricity consumption by 2030 based only on existing connection agreements.

Seth Brundle · 05-10-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980047#Comment_117980047

So am I not allowed to reply to questions posted here, given that is what I was doing?

Seth Brundle · 05-10-2021 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980133#Comment_117980133

I'm not sure if the media were claiming that data centres are currently placing the main draw on the grid. I think they were claiming that data centres are a major user industry (at about 11%) but this is increasing annually.

I think the belief is that data centres will account for up to 70% of national usage by 2030 - https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0928/1249505-data-centres-oireachtas/

dudley72 · 05-10-2021 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980218#Comment_117980218

2030 is a long time away. Eirgrid along with a lot of those state run/old state run organisations are questionable. They will point the finger at everyone and anyone

The media seemed to have turned on MNC's and this is just more of a narrative along those lines. They don't pay tax, it is only hippies in Dublin working for them, they are all millionaires, etc etc etc

All pushed by media and some of the opposition. The DC is the newest one especially when you see the size of facebook

The question I would have is if Facebook is on 100% renewable did they fund for more renewable energy or did the government forget that?

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/facebook-data-centre-clonee-renewable-energy

Tell me how · 05-10-2021 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980279#Comment_117980279

2030 is a long time away

It absolutely is not.

As for things being a narrative, or a trend, there is always an element of that as conversations evolve, that doesn't mean that there isn't a merit to having the discussion. If the media didn't question MNC's they'd be accused on here of being mouthpieces for them and I'm not sure what media you watch, but to suggest that they have all of a sudden decided to take some sort of common man approach against big business has not basis in reality.

As for Facebook and them having a 100% renewable energy, I suspect that that was never the case and that article was just greenwashing PR.

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979879#Comment_117979879

Even getting more gas from Russia the Chinese certainly aren`t moving away from coal. 58% of their energy requirements are already supply from coal burning plants and they are planning to build new coal burning plants at home that will produce 73.5 gigawatts compared to the plan plans of the rest of the world of 13.9 gigawatts. They are also offering to build hundreds more such plants around the world as part of their Belt and Road Initiative.

Cheap energy and the main supplier of solar panels and lithium batteries so financially a win win, but shush , we are not allowed mention China as we are apparently somehow taking advantage of their individual carbon footprint.😯

Shoog · 05-10-2021 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980133#Comment_117980133

Just about all the sensible money is been invested in offshore wind these day, you can see one of them on St.Georges bank if you take the Fishguard Ferry to Wales. The advantage is that wind is much more reliable offshore for various reasons. The simple night-day temperature cycle drives a very reliable off shore wind and there are no obstructions to slow down the wind. Unfortunately the model been followed in Ireland means we are late to this game as well. The Market driven Connection auctions that Eirgrid run acts both as a bottleneck to new installs (the backlog of companies waiting for connections is significant) and also encourages piece meal installs in inappropriate place where the wind is unreliable. Ireland has somewhat fucked up its wind roll out. Also as people keep pointing out the wind doesn't blow all the time so we need to either buy in other peoples excess capacity via HVDC lines, or more sensibly we need to be building massive pumped storage capacity so that we can buffer our own demand and the HVDC network (a significant revenue potential). These sorts of projects are to expensive for private industry to finance so we need government backed bonds to finance them. However the Government is only paying lip-service to Green issues so they are not taking the issues of storage seriously enough and actually investing in them. The idea that Industry will do this spontaniously all by itself is just not going to happen so without serious government buy in we will stumble from one supply crisis to the next.

JRant · 05-10-2021 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980218#Comment_117980218

No, but it's a hypothetical number based on sites yet to be approved. Their current usage is approx 5% of total grid power. If their are no plans for new power to be delivered to the grid in the intervening years then it could become a problem. That's where a proper planning process of the national grid is so important.

JRant · 05-10-2021 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980275#Comment_117980275

It's supposed to be up to 30% of our total usage by 2030. They can believe what they want but data centers don't just rock up and plug in. It takes years to get PP for the building and the grid connection.

JRant · 05-10-2021 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980368#Comment_117980368

Is it not a good thing that companies like Facebook and Amazon are willing to invest so mush in wind energy to help offset energy usage?

Surely, that's a good thing.

And it's a complete red herring anyway. The largest sector responsible for over 30% of emissions seems to be left out of the conversation completely.

Shoog · 05-10-2021 6:20pm

Those who are determined not to see a problem to solve will bitch endlessly about all the people getting on and implementing solutions to that problem. This thread is just a perfect example of that in the flesh.

The J Stands for Jay · 05-10-2021 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980373#Comment_117980373

They announced a fee weeks ago they weren't funding any more coal plants outside China.

Fred Cryton · 05-10-2021 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980587#Comment_117980587

Actually the real question is who should solve the problem....little clean Ireland or the Chinese and Americans who created the problem?

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980099#Comment_117980099

Is that not the one and only plan if we have a shortfall ?

Or can we just tell the interconnector not to send us any of that nasty nuclear powered stuff and send us just that from sun and wind ?

Dyr · 05-10-2021 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980587#Comment_117980587

You and Eamonn don't have solutions, you have pipedreams

Shoog · 05-10-2021 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980737#Comment_117980737

Everyone should solve it. Take responsibility for your corner of the problem.

Shoog · 05-10-2021 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980743#Comment_117980743

Lets be clear, I am not a fan of Nuclear in general (because of its high Risks - there are two aspects to risk, the chance of an accident and the consequence of an accident and nuclear is inherently risky because when accidents happen you can kiss goodbye to half of Ireland), but since they exist on mass in France then I have few issues with using their spare capacity when needed. But really Ireland cannot afford to wait 20 years and spend €45 Billion to install what it would need from domestic nuclear. Fortunately those who could make it happen are sensible enough to reject it out of hand.

05-10-2021 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979058#Comment_117979058

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/climate/toyota-unveils-new-plug-in-prius-hybrid

who is that at the steering wheel?

Fred Cryton · 05-10-2021 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980751#Comment_117980751

Childish argument. It's like something you'd tell primary school kids. Ireland created no problem as we have no heavy polluting industry. I will certainly not apologize for living and consuming resources.

dudley72 · 05-10-2021 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980749#Comment_117980749

Plenty of solutions available, hundreds in fact, from a couple of rolls of insulations in an attic right up to a wind turbine in the ocean

As Greens have said before if everyone does a little bit that will help, people don;t have to go out and buy an electric car if they can't afford if but if they have 100 euro to top up insulation in attic to reduce the heat requirements then that is a saving

Ranting and raving online telling everyone they know nothing doesn't really help.

Shoog · 05-10-2021 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980749#Comment_117980749

Norway would beg to differ. A country roughly the size of Ireland regularly exporting large amount of renewable electricity to its neighbours.

If you haven't got the knowledge or vision to get on board step aside.

Shoog · 05-10-2021 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980784#Comment_117980784

Everyone is responsible for their own pollution, Ireland has traditionally been one of the highest per capita emitters in the world - fortunately is is stable and even dropping because of 20 years of active policy.

Dyr · 05-10-2021 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980801#Comment_117980801

lol, pure Ryan levels of delusions, the Norwagians whose tremendous wealth is based on the massive profits of oil and whose hydro electric generation is based on an environment that the rest of Europe lacks

Cloud Cuckoo.

05-10-2021 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980368#Comment_117980368

In theory it’s possible. Large facilities can operate CHP units that actually use the heat Generated from the operation of the facility to generate power. Obviously it’s not going to create enough to operate the facility but numbers of 30% plus of energy requirements coming from these systems is not uncommon. Figure out a way to store this energy to utilise this during low wind periods and you may be able to operate using just renewable and energy recovery.

In reality they purchase their energy from companies who supply renewables to the grid and draw available energy when required from the grid. In effect a portion of renewables they pay for is used by other users, while a portion of the non renewable energy paid for by others is used by them

Edit: was replying to previous post

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980730#Comment_117980730

They said they are not funding any new coal burning plants outside of China after this year. Nothing about them withdrawing funding already committed.

60 of those they have committed too will omit as much carbon dioxide annually as Spain`s total of 267 Megatonnes and no mention of any change to their own plans to build new coal burning plants at home that would produce 73.5 Gegawatts.

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980759#Comment_117980759

You believe we are taking advantage of individual Chinese because or individual footprint is great than theirs, (even though with 18% of the world population and over 25% of world emissions they are obviously taking advantage of others on the same basis), yet you have no problem doing the same where France is concerned with all the risks you list they will be taking providing us with energy where our own policies have left us with a shortfall. The astonishing thing is you cannot appear to even see the contradictions.

As you say, lets be very clear here. We declared in 2019 that by 2030 we would have 70% of our energy needs supplied by renewable sources. There is no plan to provide that energy via the national grid other than by using wind energy. We are now up around 30%, and with the shut down of just one gas fired plant for maintenance, we are looking at rolling blackouts and importing nuclear powered energy from France simple because when the wind does no blow wind energy is worth diddly-squat.

It may or not not take 20 years to build a nuclear facility, but on the road we are on 11 years after announcing by 2030 we will have 70% rather than the present 30%, where is plan B for the wind dropping. Importing energy from France ad infinitum ?

05-10-2021 8:37pm

here me out on this....

Cows

put them all in a shed, feed them and milk them.... have a big extractor fan to collect and separate the methane

renewable energy, might not be the cleanest but we're hitting a lot of birds with this stone...

just need to get the vegans on board

Dyr · 05-10-2021 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980963#Comment_117980963

This is the whole Green strategy, commit to unachievable goals that require high levels of reliance on non existent solutions. And at the heel of the hunt it comes down to shortages, which the loons were hoping for from the get go. You are the sacrifice that Eamonn and other headbangers were willing to make.

Look at the Germans, shut down all their nuclear plants after Fukushima believing that they were headed for the sunlight uplands of Green energy and now Russia has them by the balls for gas supply and the Germans are putting the squeeze on Poland for not playing along, just like old times

Indulging this happy horseshit has consequences once reality intrudes but the politicians dont care because all they worry about is the short term and the nice headlines.

John_Rambo · 05-10-2021 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980236#Comment_117980236

Sorry, I thought you were panicking about tractors being left in fields because they ran out of battery and you'd starve to death because of those damn greens.

Mike Murdock · 05-10-2021 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981162#Comment_117981162

The German's reliance on Coal once again is also costing them €12 billion a year annually, an increase in respiratory infections, and 1,000+ preventable deaths a year.

"Nearly a decade later, some have begun to rethink their opposition. It has become clearer that the nuclear energy that Germany jettisoned nine years ago has been replaced largely by coal-fired sources, releasing not only greenhouse gases in the form of carbon dioxide but also local air pollution with deadly health consequences. Last month, a working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) estimated that the annual cost of Germany’s nuclear phase out is $12 billion, 70% of which is from increased mortality risk from stronger air pollution from burning of fossil fuels. That is substantially greater, the authors say, than even the most generous estimates of the costs of “nuclear accident risk” and waste disposal.

“The phase-out resulted in more than 1,100 additional deaths per year from increased concentrations of SO2, NOx, and (particulate matter),” it concludes. “The increase in production from hard coal plants is the key driver here, making up roughly 80% of the increase in mortality impacts.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2020/01/11/costs-of-germanys-nuclear-phase-out-are-substantial-new-paper-finds-but-there-is-little-appetite-for-a-rethink/?sh=7f83a7103ef7

"Green" policies are destroying this country

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