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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Alfie had the reputation of one of those 'fierce nice' priests before the sex abuse scandal. The poor man was barely able to suck in enough air into his lungs to smoke a spliff.

    The English bol*ox Bailey accuses Irish St. Alfie. I don't think so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,348 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well he doesn't seem to have a clear idea of who the culprit is, if it's not him. A few month's ago he was talking a hitman hired by Sophie's late husband, now it's apparently the deceased Bantry guard. He just seems to be rehashing theories already in the public domain.

    I'm skeptical that he knows much more than other people who have written extensively about the case over the years. Has he even been in a position to do proper investigative work on the case since he became 'prime suspect'?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    So if people can get away from the endless tiresome diversion of did she run here there everywhere through briars and barb wire pursued by a raging bull and come down to planet earth.

    You don't have to have a theory about the murder or whether or not there was a cover-up. You may not want to face the fact that Bailey's involvement is fantasy.

    Alfie and Shirley are central to the story. They knew more than they were letting on and were allowed to get away with that? Why



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Do you think there's any chance IB was enlisted to help "organise" the scene or to dispose of forensically significant items?

    That would explain his absence from bed, his possible foreknowledge of the event, and the fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The first photo is as you say, just after the murder, cordon tape still visible and attack gate still in place.

    In the second photo the gate by the pumphouse is gone, and through the gap you can see the attack gate has been replaced by a slightly different gate.

    I think the second photo is from the French documentary, so 20 years later about.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There’s also no proof that Ian Bailey was involved in any shape or form.

    And if there’s no ‘proof’ of a cover up that’s hardly surprising is it? Who exactly is supposed to find this proof? That’s kind of the point when the supposed enforcers of the law take matters into their own hands.

    Instead what we have is a beautiful bouquet of evidence to suggest a Garda cover up, much more robust than that which was used to convict Bailey of murder in France.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    There is no fence in the first photograph. What you are looking at is the low stone wall/surround which runs along the front and east side of the property. It appears, in the photo, as if that particular section may have been painted white or else it's directly in sunlight making it appear brighter. It would be an odd place to build a fence. You are right about that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    Just wondering and this goes to people who would have had local knowledge, did the likes of Alfie or maybe Ian Baikey consume other drugs outside of cannabis eg. LSD, mushrooms that kind of thing ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    There's three fence posts clearly visible between the stone wall and the parked car in the first picture.

    If you look up the property folios on landdirect.ie the area where the car is parked is not on the same folio as the cottage.

    The fence appears to run parallel to the cottage gable and stone wall but this would not match the boundary on on the folio. Could this have been the cause of a disagreement?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know, it looks a lot like a fence to me. It could be a temporary one, maybe she planted roses or a hedge and put a fence up to keep animals from eating it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,159 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There may have been more than one involved in the killing. Perhaps it started out as something else but because of language issues and the time she felt threatened 'freaked out' and attacked one of the group?

    It is extremely odd to say the least that a new fence is laid out and then abandoned!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    that it was a drug fuelled killing has occurred to me often, given the level of violence and lack of sexual assault. (Not necessarily with regard to the people mentioned above.)

    The nature of the crime suggests almost a psychotic episode. Especially given the lack of sexual assault.

    i wondered whether Sophie herself had taken LSD/mushrooms with whoever it was, and things escalated from there—I read that LSD or Psilocybin won’t show up in an autopsy unless specifically tested for.

    Forgetting that aspect, someone/some stranger out of their minds on one of those substances and wandering the west cork countryside makes the scenario of wandering up to Sophie’s house and encountering her there much, much more likely in my opinion. Following which came some sort of confrontation/psychotic breakdown.

    this could have been at around 2 am when people heard what they thought was an animal howling.

    If whoever it was was having some kind of mental break, this could also explain them remaining on the scene for a good few hours and then speeding away in the car spotted at 7.30 once they came round somewhat and fled the scene?



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Interesting fact regarding a local Sophie was talking to (and she did have a preference for the older man..)


    The urungers, some of the last people to see Sophie alive. One of which spoke to her at great length before she died. Seemingly enough to agree to work a project on. This had a consenting sex slave and the man would have been in his 60s. A cartoonist and farmer and owner of three castle head. Bdsm cartoons and stuff so I guess if it was him if would be a sex motive



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    A man consenting to be a sex slave in his 60s? I can easily see that now but not in those days, one reason being that farming is more mechanised



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bill Fuller. As documented in the official DPP report, a while after the murder, waved down an old woman driving near a beach, had just run from Kilfeadda Bridge because he thought he saw Ian Bailey, terrified he was, with his toddler child under his arm and his wife in tow. Turns out it wasn't Bailey but just a farmer walking by. Fuller later gave a lot of evidence against Bailey, travelled to France for the "" "trial" "" . Features prominently in both recent documentaries.

    I'd guess he partakes in more than Alfie's weed supply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    You seem convinced of their involvement in her death and that they acted alone. One, Lyons presumably, did the killing and Foster helped to destroy the evidence before calling the guards. Can you speculate as to a possible motive? Was there a long running feud over boundary or privacy issues or just a single argument that got out if hand or some more sinister reason possibly related to criminal activity? Shirley Foster is, I presume, still alive and well somewhere but ceased to be a person of interest very soon after the investigation began.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can you explain what you are trying to say please? I really don't understand you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    The fence posts are interesting. The ones erected outside the house are in a very strange location, why would anyone put a fence there? Seems totally illogical. Why were these posts subsequently removed?

    The ones in the field, what were they going to be used for? Though it's hard to see them clearly, they appear fairly new, and probably are considering they haven't been put up yet. But down at that end of the field it doesn't look like there would be any good reason to put up a fence? Maybe the hedge isn't as thick as it appears and the horses that were kept there were getting out? But then why was it not completed afterwards? Is that a gate lying in the field near the posts?

    When was this picture taken? There are two fence posts along the hedge but it doesn't look like there is any fence or wire. No gate either.


    For me that settles the debate about where the block comes from. There's only one block missing in that video whereas there are two missing in the crime scene photo, which also appears to show the "roof" pried up and bent in order to grab the block.

    One more question. Sophie rang her handyman the night she was murdered. Do we know what she was calling him for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    I am convinced of nothing. I am simply asking people to consider how the investigators would have reacted if they had been convinced of Alfie's guilt or, if Alfie and Shirley actually were guilty, why the police went to such lengths to conceal it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    This is a serious issue, imagine how Ian Bailey and his nearest feel, he didn't understand either and there was no one going to tell him straight.

    If you want to find out about the effects of drugs or whatever there is only one way to find out. But don't pretend to know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "The fence posts are interesting. The ones erected outside the house are in a very strange location, why would anyone put a fence there? Seems totally illogical. "

    The fence is on the boundary between Sophie's property and a neighbours.

    Sophie's car is actually parked on the neighbour's land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Can we just categorically state that cutting pages out of evidence books is a cover up and not malpractice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    I asked the same question a few pages back and someone said plastering. What is your summary of the fence posts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Yes I understand that, but the neighbour who owned the land wasn't there at the time. Do we know when they were last there? Was it shortly before Sophie arrived?

    If they were trying to send a message to Sophie about their boundary, you would assume they would fence it in such a way that prevented her from parking there? Maybe they did for all we know and the fence posts in the field were removed from the area where her car was parked.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Okay. I'm not engaging with this. Mamboozle, I genuinely wish you all the best and a good night's sleep.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    It's unlikely the posts were Sophie's doing, if they were we would know about it from Josephine Helen or the handyman who worked for her. So someone else was planning to put up a substantial enough fence, maybe two. But then after the murder they changed their mind. It just seems strange that if the fence was not related to a boundary dispute, and was simply being erected for practical reasons, that it was not subsequently finished.

    Could all be innocent, but it seems odd.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Josephine Hellens husband used Sophie's land for grazing animals. Perhaps he put up or was planning to put up a temporary fence to keep animals in. As far as I'm aware Finbar Hellen also identified Sophie's body for the gardai.



This discussion has been closed.
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