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Landlord selling house

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  • 06-10-2021 6:15pm
    #1
    brianlxp
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭brianlxp


    Hi,

    I am renting a room for two years in shared accomodation. The landlord gave me eviction notice to leave as is selling the house ( I don't believe this is true). The appropriate amount of days were given on notice. The notice however was computer typed and signed by the landlord. It was not done via legal document, signed by solicitor (statutory declaration) . Is the notice that the landlord gave me invalid and therefore dismissed? Thanks.



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    #2
    Pomodoro
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Pomodoro


    According to the RTB a statutory declaration is required.

    They say

    “A Statutory Declaration must take a specific format and must be signed in the presence of a Commissioner for Oaths, Practising Solicitor, Notary Public, or Peace Commissioner. Please note that the Declarant must sign the Statutory Declaration themselves, it cannot be signed on their behalf by an authorised agent.”

    i don’t have permission to add links, but you will get more info by googling the rtb quote.



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    #3
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You have to get a notary to issue notice to terminate tenancy?


    Wut .....



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    #4
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,767 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Does the landlord live in this shared accommodation with you?

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985132#Comment_117985132

    In the specific case of stating that you're selling the house (and some other reasons), yes, as there are repercussions to lying (if caught)

    https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/providing-a-correct-statutory-declaration



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    #5
    brianlxp
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭brianlxp



    "Does the landlord live in this shared accommodation with you?"

    Hi,

    No, the landlord doesn't live in the house. I just rent one room from the house. Do any factors come in to play for example (time duration of when notice was given?) Or is the notice invalid and reset no matter what because not done by way of law?


    Thanks



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    #6
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985515#Comment_117985515

    Assuming sending notification to vacate via registered post. Having a copy and sending same notification via email would be sufficient. What would you need to expense a notary for ..and where would the lie be. That's multiple burdens of proof though..



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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985589#Comment_117985589

    It’s a stupid rule. When everyone was told to stay in their homes and emergency legislation was passed freezing evictions, landlords were still obliged to get their notices signed by a commissioner of oaths!

    Nice that the health of landlords was thought about.


    edit: and you can’t send notices by email but you can post it without registering. Dunno wtf that rule is about either.



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    #8
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,767 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985589#Comment_117985589

    No, it wouldn't - as the statutory declaration is required. No matter how many copies and methods you send it by doesn't defeat that.

    You can make it in front of a Peace Commissioner for free if you can find one. Many county councillors are.



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    #9
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭1874


    F me, what a mess, why do you not believe the landlord OP? a lot of landlords are selling up.



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    #10
    PalLimerick
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211980/landlord-selling-house

    100% invalid. Open a case with the rtb. This will put any notice on hold. Thus, keeping you in the property longer. Don't be put off doing this. There is a housing crisis and this is your right. Also the landlord must put the house on the market within, I think 9 months and if he doesn't it must be offered back to the tenants. Contact Threshold they will confirm the notice is invalid. Definitely go through the rtb.



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    #11
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭1874


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986261#Comment_117986261

    Imagine for a second the person wants, needs to sell the property, a militant attitude certainly hasn't helped encourage more landlords and more rentals in the past, no wonder there is a dwindling supply, glad I got out and sold up before the nightmare of the last year and a half turned up.

    You do realise, its the current and past govts that are at fault for the housing crisis?



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    #12
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,543 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211980/landlord-selling-house

    Even if you are right all they would need to do is print another letter and get it rubber stamped for €10.



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    #13
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭meijin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986250#Comment_117986250

    because a lot of them were lying about selling (or needing it for family, etc), so the requirement for statutory declaration was introduced



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    #14
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985132#Comment_117985132

    A notary is not the same as a Commissioner for Oaths. Notaries charge more and there is no need for one in the case of a termination.



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    #15
    Pomodoro
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Pomodoro


    It's astonishing how many landlords don't make sure they follow the correct procedures for terminations, considering how protracted it can be if the tenants dig their heels in.



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    #16
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭1874


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987298#Comment_117987298

    huh? I wasnt asking why the statutory declaration stuff was introduced, I asked the OP if they have some specific reason not to believe their landlord, that they are selling up? Unless you actually know yourself what the OP is thinking?



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    #17
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987298#Comment_117987298

    How do you know a lot of landlords were lying, maybe their circumstances or their family's needs changed or they couldn't sell for whatever reason. Its not only tenants who have changing circumstances.



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    #18
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988162#Comment_117988162

    Talking to someone last week who was thinking of letting his house for 2022 while he's working in the uk. He thought that a fixed term contract for the year meant a tenant would have to leave automatically at the end of the term - he didn't know about part4 rules. TBF, theres probably a lot of people who dont know all the regulations. Renting is not as relaxed as it was, tenants and landlords both need legal advice these days.



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    #19
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991292#Comment_117991292

    You would think two people could sign a contract together that would mean something. But no, the contract means nothing. Might as well not specify a time in it at all.



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    #20
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988162#Comment_117988162

    Considering how many times the legislation has changed in recent memory, it nearly a profession to keep up with what is and isn't required/allowed to rent as a business.



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    #21
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭ec18


    why do you think that the landlord wouldn't be selling in this market? most of them would be mad not to.



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    #22
    Pomodoro
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Pomodoro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992308#Comment_117992308

    This is what letting agents should be for. But of course they are rubbish.

    But anyway, it is indeed a business, and like any business you need to keep up with the relevant regulations around your business. And to be honest in this case, all the landlord had to do was go to the RTB website to get the correct advice. Unless he doesn't actually intend to sell, and so doesn't want to sign a statutory declaration, that is.



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    #23
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992431#Comment_117992431

    Letting agents are not lawyers. I know one who tells landlords to go to solicitors when they want to terminate as they don't have professional indemnity insurance to give legal advice. Letting property may be a business but some cases of property rental such as the situation of a person abroad for a year should be in a different category to those of the multiunit multi-property landlords. I know a landlord who has been trying to get a tenant out for the last three years to move in herself. She is paying a higher rent than she is getting from the tenant. The tenant is paying the rent but using every trick in the book to prolong the tenancy. Into the RT B, finding technical faults with notices, wording of notices ad nauseam. She has a solicitor and barrister but so has the tenant.



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    #24
    Pomodoro
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Pomodoro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992605#Comment_117992605

    Thats a bad situation for your friend, and I would personally never want to be a landlord because of the risk of this happening. That doesn't mean OP isn't entitled to have his landlord follow the correct termination procedure, nor does it mean that landlords in general shouldn't make an effort to follow the correct procedures.



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    #25
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991675#Comment_117991675


    Of course the contract means something. You are confusing the fact that there is additional legislation which can give tenants certain rights. A contract which simply does not mention those additional rights cannot automatically negate those obligations.



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    #26
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118002300#Comment_118002300

    So two people sign a contract. Both happy at the outset that the property is to be rented for a period of 12 months at x price per month and then given back to the owner.

    Tenant decides they want to stay on for another 5 years after the contract they both agreed on is up.

    Contract is worth nothing.



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    #27
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003307#Comment_118003307


    It's up to you man. If you think that then feel free to rent to people without any "contract" or formal agreement at all and see whether it had any value.



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    #28
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003342#Comment_118003342

    I think you miss the point.

    Two people agree a contract between them. Thats what a contract should be. Not that one of them is held to a different contract by a nanny and one of them can break whatever they like.



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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991292#Comment_117991292

    But if he is moving back in after a year (which I assume he is) then he can serve a termination notice, and as long as is done properly shouldn’t be an issue (assuming tenants don’t just ignore it and need to be evicted). I did this and moved back in after a year. The landlord moving back in is a valid reason to terminate the tenancy



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    #30
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003419#Comment_118003419


    No it is you that miss the point. Your lease will not automatically override one of the party's rights. Especially by simple omission.

    It would be similar to you buying a brand new car, signing an agreement that doesn't mention warranty or guarantee and when it is delivered off the back of a lorry, finding out the engine doesn't start. Do you think you would be able to make a claim against the garage even though your signed agreement was just for you to pay money and for the garage to deliver the car? Does the fact that you signed that agreement somehow waive all the legal rights you would have otherwise had? Do you think that you would be able to take the garage to court for providing you with a faulty car?


    But as I said, feel free to let tenants into your property without any signed agreement if you believe that the signed agreement has no value



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    #31
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003452#Comment_118003452


    I know two people trying to sell for the last 3 years and the tenants wont move. Told by the Threshold to just stay.

    I know one house currently for sale in Ashbourne that has a tenant in it who is only too happy to say to the other parents at the school that as soon as her notice is up Threshold have told her to overhold, but to wait until the last minute. There are people currently bidding on that house.

    So what you will have there is a sale agreed and then just before closing it will all come tumbling down when it becomes known to the buyer that the tenant will not vacate.

    Goodbye chain of sales that that one is connected to.

    Herslef and her landlord most likely signed a contract when she first rented the house. Means nothing to her. And she wont even be punished for breaking it.



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