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Clamped in housing estate

  • 07-10-2021 8:15am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭


    Just got a call from my brother that his car has been clamped outside his front door, as he didn't have his permit displayed. He range me as he knows I have an angle grinder. Before I head over to him with it I wanted to find out if he is making a mistake in cutting the lock off the clamp. It's a private company that clamped it. €125 to get it removed.

    thanks for any help with this



«1

Comments

  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're not his brother, and he didn't ask you to cut it off. You also didn't post this on a public forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,012 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Yes he is making a mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭wilser




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    You can take it off without damaging it, if you can, do it and leave it where you found it.

    cutting it off is criminal damage and taking it away is theft.


    The clampers in Galway are scum.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNsnfzubbjw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    If its outside his front door and he has a permit, can he not ring the clamping company and explain this. Would his reg not be on a list of permitted cars? Clamp comes off now, another could go back on just as easy. All depending how ruthless the clamping company is in the estate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Fian


    Damaging property.

    2.—(1) A person who without lawful excuse damages any property belonging to another intending to damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be damaged shall be guilty of an offence.

    (2) A person who without lawful excuse damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—

    (a) intending to damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be damaged, and

    (b) intending by the damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered,

    shall be guilty of an offence.

    (3) A person who damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another, with intent to defraud shall be guilty of an offence.

    (4) An offence committed under this section by damaging property by fire shall be charged as arson.

    (5) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

    (a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

    (b) on conviction on indictment—

    (i) in case the person is guilty of arson under subsection (1) or (3) or of an offence under subsection (2) (whether arson or not), to a fine or imprisonment for life or both, and

    (ii) in case the person is guilty of any other offence under this section, to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

    (6) For the purposes of this section a person is reckless if he has foreseen that the particular kind of damage that in fact was done might be done and yet has gone on to take the risk of it.






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    You "heard" of someone cutting off a clamp from a private company. 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    the only (completely useless) advice i have is




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭wilser


    He rang them and they said it wasn't visible/displayed. don't know about the reg and a list of cars



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭GBX




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    I'm assuming these guys are contracted by the management company ? id start there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    If there is no proof of the brother removing the clamp, then he could argue he didnt remove it someone else did without his knowledge.

    Otherwise, I could go around cutting clamps off random cars and the car owner would be liable for damages - thankfully this isnt the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭jbv


    In my estate, the same rules applies. You pay the management fee, you get 2 parking disks for the windshield. If no parking disk, will get clamped. I see a lot of people cutting the clamp. It's at they're own risk I guess. I wouldn't cut it for anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,012 ✭✭✭Allinall


    The brother is still breaking the law, whether there is proof or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    If the brother doesnt remove the clamp himself he is not breaking the law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,012 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Of course.

    As it stands now, nobody is breaking the law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Is this on a public access road?

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭wilser




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Pay the fine, learn lesson, move on. Who do you think was at fault?


    If you cut clamp they, or neighbour may video process, not worth it.


    They keep a record of who cuts clamp and next time they might tow away, or leave alone depending on their real world policy. They may target the car in the future or at least check it on the first day of the new disc display period and then tow it away, or clamp it and watch it all day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Might have been more believable had you said your the Aunt who does metal arts and crafts classes with an angle grinder (just saying) but liked the post 😅🤣

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    just a thought - I know of plenty of cases of people cutting off private clamps (as in first hand accounts) - I've never heard of a single case of anyone being prosecuted for doing so.

    Can anyone point to any court case of anyone being prosecuted for cutting off a clamp ?



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,012 ✭✭✭Allinall


    They may not be allowed to, but that does not mean they can't.

    The same way you are not allowed to cut off a clamp, but can do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Sorry i cannot advise.

    i just wonder since your post was at 9.15am what time was it clamped at...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭bladespin


    If it’s on a public road then private clamps are illegal, worth checking with the gardai.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    that's why I asked about private clampers - I get the sense that private clampers would prefer not to proceed with legal action against some one as an unfavourable court decision could have a very severe impact on their business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭wilser


    was clamped when he was going to work, so before 8



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    This is someone with private land where scabs choose to park their cars rather than on a paid parking space.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Go see a solicitor...

    Find out who the company and tell them you getting legal advise... so if i own a property and someone decides to stay the night because of a few drinks or a seedy evening they get clamped CRAZY...

    Also make complaint to Management Company... refuse to pay fees whatever... this is wrong...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,718 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    My heart bleeds for them.


    my sister was clamped in Galway once, she had a ticket but it blew off when she closed the door, the robbers hadnt began putting the clamp on when she got back, they wouldnt even look at her ticket on the floor. robbing fcukers. As for the bully in the video, if it is his private land, he should have it secured properly. looking for handy money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Park properly and you won’t get clamped. Don’t assume you can leave your car on other peoples land, even if you have a youtube law degree and a camera to back you up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Clamping on privately owned land is not illegal in Ireland though there are regulations which the parking controller must follow. You might own your property which may include a private driveway, but you do not own the parking spaces, even if one is designated to your property, these are leased from the development. If the MC inform you that you need a displayed permit and there are clearly displayed signs informing motorists of clamping in operation, then your car can be clamped.

    The permits are usually given to owners when yearly subscriptions are paid (owners are required under the MUD Act to pay MC annual fees), if you don’t pay them, that probably means a whole lot more €125 clamping fees. Your friend who comes round for a few drinks/a seedy evening has no entitlement to park overnight in a private car park.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    there almost certainly rules as there is... a car being clamped before 8am in a housing estate is crazy...

    There is likely more to it i be thinking...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From experience, the company who has the clamping contract also monitors other private developments, they do their sweeps at different times during the day. Whether the permit is displayed is binary, it either is or it isn’t, if it isn’t then as per the signage, car can be clamped. This is the same as Pay & Display private car parks, the ticket has to be displayed or the parking controller issues a ticket.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I expect more to it.... clamping in a housing estate before 8am.. I would expect this only likely happen on a clearway or strictly private area...

    I expect all be revealed soon....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭Comment_below


    Are people aware that if a clamper takes over 2 hours to remove a clamp after the payment, that by law the clamping company must reimburse the payment. Happened to me, I just Happened to pay the fine at 3.30am in the morning and it was at 7am it was taken off ...I appealed the fine on the grounds it took over 2 hours. Plus if i had rented a car or got a taxi between 5.30am and when the clamp was removed at 7am, that would be reimbursed too.

    The hilarious thing is that the camping company said that they reimbursed "as a gesture of good will"......it's the Law!!



    I often wondered if a disgruntled motorist put hard glue or metal filings in the clamp lock and paid the release fee at an awkward hour, would it always take over 2 hours to remove the clamp. Not that I condone that behaviour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    To my knowledge, Galway City Council don't use clamping on the public streets anymore. Which suggests this is indeed a private road with its own management company.

    As a director of a few of these management companies myself, I'd go ahead and grind it off in these situations, there really is no appetite on the part of the clamping company or the management company to go after the release fee or damage for a new chain on a clamp. Needless to say, if a clamper went to a small claims Court, they'd be sent packing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I gather from what you are saying that the County Councils have never taken over the road areas leading to the houses in any development. I thought this was automatic when development complete...

    How is property tax collected if Councils have no involvement in development....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can a business take a member of the public to the Small Claims Court? I wouldn’t have thought so, if they go to the big boy Court, why would they be sent packing if the car owner has damaged private property?

    As a Director of an MC, you should know that the way parking companies make money is by collecting the release fee, how do you think the clamping company pay their staff?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    I've cut off a few clamps back in the day, nothing ever happened, though your brothers car could be a target for an out of the blue random 'vandal attack'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,656 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Whenever i hear about clamping i remember this. Warms the cockles of my heart it does.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its two separate things.

    Some developments are built with the intention of being handed over to the Councils to be 'taken in charge', as its known. They become public roads and streets. Others are built to be kept private and managed by the owners through an Owner Management Company under the MUD Act. These will sometimes be gated and will often have a much fancier standard of paving and landscaping, though not always and owners/tenants will pay fees to run things, like the street lighting, security cameras, bin collections and so on. They will also often contract parking enforcement companies to ensure only residents and legitimate visitors park there.

    The Local Property Tax is administered by the Revenue Commissioners on all dwellings, it doesn't matter a fig whether the streets they are on are in charge of the Council, or not. Revenue then disperses the tax back to the Councils proportionately, with the richer counties supplementing the poorer and less populated ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Thanks for the clear discription as i never really understood how this worked until now....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    What a ridiculous comment.

    The solicitor will charge you €125 and more to tell you that they have absolute right to clamp you on a privately managed estate where you are a member of the management company that has agreed to and implemented these rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I was not aware that managaement company could own the road to a deiveway that is listed as freehold property as i assuned all semi detached houses were freehold...

    It seems i was wrong and the same rules are applied as an apartment block... i would not buy a house in one of these... how widespread is this practice...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    I'd be the opposite. If I was to buy a house in an estate, I'd be looking for the common areas to be owned by residents rather than the council



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    You likely more informed on this than i do... I lived in a semi for 10 years and all we needed to do was have the grass in a large common green area cut a few times each year... it worked well...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They could, but they don't always. It varies.

    Sometimes its common area right up to the external wall of the house, other times you might have a garden or forecourt that's part of the freehold and private to the dwelling.

    I sit on the boards of a particular estate where there is a selection of both and also some apartments for good measure. The annual budget always makes for a good row.

    How widespread? Among private estates in Dublin, very. Almost universally you will find some sort of odd demarcation.

    Its something that potential owners need to pay more heed to when buying, but surprisingly few do. Not that it need be a deal breaker either, but people should understand what their situation will be in their homes.

    Its mostly tenants that fall foul of it though, the Landlord tells them some bullshyt or other that proves to be inaccurate and they end up in difficulty with the OMC about parking spaces or storage of motorbikes or barbecues or God knows what.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They don't ever go to big boy Court over a 50 quid chain, not if the day will cost them a grand.

    The parking management companies I deal with are paid a fixed fee to monitor parking in the estates. We don't want aggressive clamping, only of cars trying to park for free to commute etc or where a particular home has not paid their management fees, their parking privileges are removed.



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