The Expanse (Amazon) [ Spoilers ]

beauf · 17-02-2021 12:27am

lordgoat wrote: »

She's not far off it!

I'm also not just talking about the last episode of this season, she's pretty much unwatchable all seasonal least on the last episode you can mute and know. you're missing absolutely nothing.

The pacing is way off the most recent seasons, too hurried. The last one especially, it's lost a lot of the depth that was created.

Dunno I like a faster pace. The new terra season was slow.

somuj · 17-02-2021 6:04pm

beauf wrote: »

Dunno I like a faster pace. The new terra season was slow.

My other half agrees.

She was like wake up and put on another episode. Groggy I said what did I miss? Everything she replies followed by so much happens in every episode.

pixelburp · 17-02-2021 6:23pm

Season 4 was kinda slow by design, insofar as that was the book's problem as well. It had to take a sharp turn towards the terrestrial to bring more focus onto the fate of the Protomolecule Builders. All the political scheming went into the background for the length of a book.

However ... where the TV season really dropped the ball - that left me kinda surprised 'cos it was so slapdash IMO - was that it chose not to follow the dramas and tensions within the village population ... while dropping an entire arc onboard the Company's ship in orbit. In fact, said ship saw the return of an old character in

Miller's old partner when he was alive / a cop

, who played his part in a violent schism between the scientists and security forces as they watched events unfold down the gravity well. Some of the villagers turned up on-screen, but their parts severely reduced and spent most time in awe of Holdon & Pals.

So there was lots going on in the pages, just for some reason the TV adaptation chose instead to doggedly follow the Rocinante crew, like it was THEIR story (which it kinda is I suppose). Yet in reality the book was more interested in those choosing to start a new life; in what it MEANT to make a life on New Terra, a perspective on this specific strange new world that was only one of thousands out there.

Blazer · 17-02-2021 6:25pm

sounds like the books are worth getting into?

breezy1985 · 17-02-2021 6:50pm

Blazer wrote: »

sounds like the books are worth getting into?

Definitely worth it

somuj · 17-02-2021 7:37pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Definitely worth it

Which book should I read to find out what happens next?

Being fooled before with 3 Harry Potter in a week.

hold my beer · 17-02-2021 7:41pm

It's a good while since I listened but I'm pretty sure the last book I listened to (which was to where this season ends) was Nemesis games. I'm going to start Babylon's ashes now.

Do yourself a favour though, and start from the beginning. The books are really good. Better than the TV show imo

fitz · 17-02-2021 8:29pm

hold my beer wrote: »

It's a good while since I listened but I'm pretty sure the last book I listened to (which was to where this season ends) was Nemesis games. I'm going to start Babylon's ashes now.

Do yourself a favour though, and start from the beginning. The books are really good. Better than the TV show imo

Definitely start from the beginning with the books. There are differences and details that aren't covered in the show, so it's not really like you can just dive into later books having watched the show and expect to understand all the threads. They're well worth it.

breezy1985 · 17-02-2021 9:04pm

somuj wrote: »

Which book should I read to find out what happens next?

Being fooled before with 3 Harry Potter in a week.

You need to start at the beginning. The next season will be a mash up of a few books

hold my beer · 17-02-2021 10:29pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

You need to start at the beginning. The next season will be a mash up of a few books

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

breezy1985 · 17-02-2021 10:44pm

hold my beer wrote: »

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

I'm hoping so but the story from the later books might get mashed in

GreeBo · 17-02-2021 10:51pm

hold my beer wrote: »

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

well they are only making 1 more season so it depends on if they want to wrap up the story or not...(though considering the books arent done yet that might be hard!)

CruelSummer · 18-02-2021 6:31pm

Have watched all of the Expanse as of last night. Absolutely super series where they stay closer to reality and what could theoretically happen in the future than some of their peers. Really hope someone buys this series after Season 6. Otherwise Amazon might deviate from the books and create their own 'ending'. Fair play to Amazon for picking this up in the first place to help it reach a wider audience. I think the departure of Alex at the end of series 5 is very obviously written into the episode but won't hinder the series long term. Mao's daughter can take on the role of pilot of the Rosiante for Series 6.

pixelburp · 21-02-2021 9:13pm

Finished the season today. Absolute stormer and that's speaking as someone who wasn't that sold on book 5 in the first place. It'd be nice to have had more perspectives of those Inaros claimed to represent, but ship sets are probably cheaper than ones on a station, and that's a quibble.

I hear people's complaints about the focus on Naomi but I enjoyed it. It was almost to the point of sadism, just how much through the ringer the season put her, but it wasn't unearned either. Anyone who

throws themselves into space without protection

can cry all they want

The revision of Alex's presence at the end felt a little rushed and odd in places, but at least they put it in somewhere where it fit, structurally. Those hard burns are dangerous, there was the proof. Ultimately it's no great loss, as Alex always had the less interesting arc, and was often just another body in the plan as the books went on.

Season 6 being the last still worries. There's just too much to cram into what still appears to be a final season; I hope this is just shadow play and we even just get a true, final 7th, compressing the last two books - which at least feels more organic

breezy1985 · 21-02-2021 10:51pm

pixelburp wrote: »

. It'd be nice to have had more perspectives of those Inaros claimed to represent,

Soyã when does anyone ever listen to the views or perspectives of the Belters kopeng

Tenger · 21-02-2021 11:21pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Finished the season today. Absolute stormer and that's speaking as someone who wasn't that sold on book 5 in the first place.

...........
Season 6 being the last still worries. There's just too much to cram into what still appears to be a final season; I hope this is just shadow play and we even just get a true, final 7th, compressing the last two books - which at least feels more organic

The authors have inferred that there will be some more content beyond Season 6.
But no any time soon

pixelburp · 22-02-2021 2:25am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Soyã when does anyone ever listen to the views or perspectives of the Belters kopeng

Haha. That does also remind of one really nice touch; the interfaces on Drummer's ship were all in Belter patois.

One of the unheralded aspects throughout this show has been the production design: user interfaces often look and feel real, not just a flashy array of blinking lights or blather. Everything from PDAs to ship controls look and feel real. If you pause the info look genuine for that current purpose.

beauf · 22-02-2021 2:28am

pixelburp wrote: »

Haha. That does also remind of one really nice touch; the interfaces on Drummer's ship were all in Belter patois.

One of the unheralded aspects throughout this show has been the production design: user interfaces often look and feel real, not just a flashy array of blinking lights or blather. Everything from PDAs to ship controls look and feel real. If you pause the info look genuine for that current purpose.

..anyone else start swiping their phone the way they do in the show...

H3llR4iser · 07-03-2021 1:13pm

For the life of me I'm trying to go through this, but it's really testing me. The constant jumping around between storylines is something I absolutely detest in current narratives; It usually means there are about 5-10 interesting minutes in each episode, with the rest being just total filler - even worse, finding myself having to pretty much endure the various "side" storylines which feel totally irrelevant, until maybe one final moment where they sorta converge (but usually doesn't really give any real importance to all that was shown in the meantime).

The general premise of the story is interesting, the execution...urgh. I'd be curious about the books, but...do they follow the same path? Entire chapters one is tempted to skip?

The stupidity of some characters and factions baffles me. Holden goes around pretty much saying "I'm talking to a dead man who tells me what to do!"...really? It took him a whole season to finally correct to the tune of "The protomolecule, somehow, communicates with me through mental projections!". Still sounds like a deranged lunatic, but might at least make someone think "ok, that is unlikely but possible...".

And the Belters...oh dear...they remind me of the fcuking Bajorians from DS9, always wallowing in them being "victims" and justifying anything with it. How do you think unprovoked attacks, defying multi-faction agreements and occupying unexplored worlds will help foster the consideration of other factions have for you?

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 1:46pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

For the life of me I'm trying to go through this, but it's really testing me. The constant jumping around between storylines is something I absolutely detest in current narratives; It usually means there are about 5-10 interesting minutes in each episode, with the rest being just total filler - even worse, finding myself having to pretty much endure the various "side" storylines which feel totally irrelevant, until maybe one final moment where they sorta converge (but usually doesn't really give any real importance to all that was shown in the meantime).

The general premise of the story is interesting, the execution...urgh. I'd be curious about the books, but...do they follow the same path? Entire chapters one is tempted to skip?

The stupidity of some characters and factions baffles me. Holden goes around pretty much saying "I'm talking to a dead man who tells me what to do!"...really? It took him a whole season to finally correct to the tune of "The protomolecule, somehow, communicates with me through mental projections!". Still sounds like a deranged lunatic, but might at least make someone think "ok, that is unlikely but possible...".

And the Belters...oh dear...they remind me of the fcuking Bajorians from DS9, always wallowing in them being "victims" and justifying anything with it. How do you think unprovoked attacks, defying multi-faction agreements and occupying unexplored worlds will help foster the consideration of other factions have for you?

The books move around but slower as the story is from all sides and across various levels of politics/society pretty much the exact same way the Game of Thrones books did.

As for the Belters it's essentially 1800s Britain where the entire working class population has no vote and is exploited so "unprovoked" is a matter of opinion and as history shows them and us terrorism does work as the Irish should know better than most.
It sounds like you don't like some very major parts of it so I wouldn't waste any more time on the show or book.

And the Bajorans were victims and not "victims"

beauf · 07-03-2021 3:02pm

All those stories do connect, and interveave but they take time to develop. If you don't have the patience for that, maybe give it a miss. The books are even more densely packed. You'd have far more stuff you don't like to wade though.

I thought Game Of Thrones was worse for filler, at least in the books.

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 3:26pm

beauf wrote: »

All those stories do connect, and interveave but they take time to develop. If you don't have the patience for that, maybe give it a miss. The books are even more densely packed. You'd have far more stuff you don't like to wade though.

I thought Game Of Thrones was worse for filler, at least in the books.

Ya probably not helped by Martin not having a clue where his own story was going to go. Thankfully The Expanse is also far less concerned with the intricate details of how 12yo girls lost their virginity

pixelburp · 07-03-2021 3:44pm

Ha. That's the first time I've seen a viewer basically come down against the Belters as basically shifty malcontents. Maybe it's as I lamented, the lack of ordinary belter lives' perspectives, makes it seem like they're all Marcos Inaros in waiting.

The thing is, like a lot of real life parallels, the Inners caused this in turning the other way rather than addressing blatant exploitation and abuse against the "native" people of the belt. They were happy to reap the rewards of a class and race kept under the heal of unaccountable Private corporations, then act shocked when the Belters lashed out the only direction they could.

beauf · 07-03-2021 3:49pm

Fantasy is well known for losing itself, wheel of time etc.

Expanse isn't that.

The Expanse is just complex and densely packed. Expanse on the TV show has been reconstructed from the books. Its not a simple simplification.
It very interesting how they've reconstructed parts to work better in a TV format. In many way it tells the story in a clearer, more concise way from the books.

beauf · 07-03-2021 3:55pm

The TV show doesn't focus as much on the lives of ordinary belters that much. The books do flesh that out at bit more.

The books give you a wider context, a bigger world, a bigger space where all this plays out. The TV show makes everything seem a little small. If I have a criticism of the TV show its that.

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 4:02pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Ha. That's the first time I've seen a viewer basically come down against the Belters as basically shifty malcontents. Maybe it's as I lamented, the lack of ordinary belter lives' perspectives, makes it seem like they're all Marcos Inaros in waiting.

The thing is, like a lot of real life parallels, the Inners caused this in turning the other way rather than addressing blatant exploitation and abuse against the "native" people of the belt. They were happy to reap the rewards of a class and race kept under the heal of unaccountable Private corporations, then act shocked when the Belters lashed out the only direction they could.

The distinction between them is harder to notice in the TV show too where they look like inners with tattoos due to TV constraints. They look physically different in the book and see themselves as a race and in the book the talk of "skinnys" and attitudes towards them is racism. They are the undocumented "Mexican" or "Paddy" tenant farmer of their century in terms of the stereotypes thrown at them

pixelburp · 07-03-2021 4:04pm

beauf wrote: »

The TV show doesn't focus as much on the lives of ordinary belters that much. The books do flesh that out at bit more.

The books give you a wider context, a bigger world, a bigger space where all this plays out. The TV show makes everything seem a little small. If I have a criticism of the TV show its that.

Oh yeah for sure I've been reading the books and it's a big flaw of season 4 in actively dropping an ordinary Belter family from the TV version's strands. But even without them, I'd not have figured the Belters as overall bad guys; it's clear the corporations have unfettered, unregulated access to the belt. It's all very East India Company.

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 4:13pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh yeah for sure I've been reading the books and it's a big flaw of season 4 in actively dropping an ordinary Belter family from the TV version's strands. But even without them, I'd not have figured the Belters as overall bad guys; it's clear the corporations have unfettered, unregulated access to the belt. It's all very East India Company.

The two big governments are forever making treaty's and deals on the belts behalf too without any input from the belt. The OPA are about the fight for equal representation under Dawes and Fred and it's only Marco and the Free Navy that take it to an extreme

pixelburp · 07-03-2021 4:25pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

The two big governments are forever making treaty's and deals on the belts behalf too without any input from the belt. The OPA are about the fight for equal representation under Dawes and Fred and it's only Marco and the Free Navy that take it to an extreme

Yup, all very ANC, to read another parallel. A nominal terrorist organisation, fighting for freedoms all the same. The nature of the Belts fragmented physical nature probably made corporate hegemony easier to maintain at first. Also accounting for the dozens of rival gangs and factions, with no single entity having the literal range to control more than a couple of asteroids or stations at a time. Fred's obvious flaw was his background but you look to history and there was always a Saladin or Bolivar coming. Even the otherwise peerless Avarasala wasn't above some casual Belter torture to get her way, she had her own hand in what came to pass.

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 4:45pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Yup, all very ANC, to read another parallel. A nominal terrorist organisation, fighting for freedoms all the same. The nature of the Belts fragmented physical nature probably made corporate hegemony easier to maintain at first. Also accounting for the dozens of rival gangs and factions, with no single entity having the literal range to control more than a couple of asteroids or stations at a time. Fred's obvious flaw was his background but you look to history and there was always a Saladin or Bolivar coming. Even the otherwise peerless Avarasala wasn't above some casual Belter torture to get her way, she had her own hand in what came to pass.

Oh go f$*% yourself

pixelburp · 07-03-2021 4:52pm

I'm glad season 2 onwards dispensed with the self-censoring of the language, because I don't want to live in a universe where Avarasala's vulgar mouth went unaired.

iguana · 07-03-2021 5:04pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The thing is, like a lot of real life parallels, the Inners caused this in turning the other way rather than addressing blatant exploitation and abuse against the "native" people of the belt. They were happy to reap the rewards of a class and race kept under the heal of unaccountable Private corporations, then act shocked when the Belters lashed out the only direction they could.

To be entirely fair to the people of earth, the majority of people there don't live particularly good lives either. From what little we've seen life on basic is actually pretty shït. Ordinary earth humans may not be worked like the belters are but that's because there is genuinely nothing for them to do. The have a subsistence living with crap homes, no luxuries and nothing to give them purpose. They have a tiny chance of winning a lottery that might get them trained for a job but the majority will just live out their lives in little more than squalor and that's it. Those who have jobs and luxuries have pulled up the ladder under them for their families. Most people lived like Amos did until he got lucky enough that crime paid for him to get off planet.

breezy1985 · 07-03-2021 6:59pm

iguana wrote: »

To be entirely fair to the people of earth, the majority of people there don't live particularly good lives either. From what little we've seen life on basic is actually pretty shït. Ordinary earth humans may not be worked like the belters are but that's because there is genuinely nothing for them to do. The have a subsistence living with crap homes, no luxuries and nothing to give them purpose. They have a tiny chance of winning a lottery that might get them trained for a job but the majority will just live out their lives in little more than squalor and that's it. Those who have jobs and luxuries have pulled up the ladder under them for their families. Most people lived like Amos did until he got lucky enough that crime paid for him to get off planet.

But they do get a vote and a voice. Belters have to pay of water and air just to survive and even though Earth controls much of the belt it does not extend basic to Belters

iguana · 07-03-2021 11:34pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

But they do get a vote and a voice. Belters have to pay of water and air just to survive and even though Earth controls much of the belt it does not extend basic to Belters

I think of it kind of like the Earth elite being the British empire. The belters are Irish/Indian/other colony peasants. The Earth masses are British peasants. Yes the colony peasants have it worse but it's still just a different consistency shït sandwich of a life. Up until the ring gates opened the only society where the average person had a decent life was Mars.

EoinMcLovin · 08-10-2021 6:33pm

https://youtu.be/4PJpkGPtAHE

Season 6 starts on December 10th with only 6 episodes. Concludes on January 14th

pixelburp · 08-10-2021 6:38pm

Oh yes. December 10, let's go. Now let's have a season 7 ordered and it'll make my month.

Funny I was only thinking there has been zero news of this for months.

breezy1985 · 08-10-2021 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994541#Comment_117994541

Isn't this definitely the final season for the foreseeable future

08-10-2021 6:41pm

Yeah that rime shift is a perfect excuse to pull the plug. Last book is out in Nov, yeah?

pixelburp · 08-10-2021 6:43pm

Shít, only 6 episodes though? That sucks. There's definitely no way this can wrap up the whole story - not least the protomolecule one

08-10-2021 6:49pm

I could see a few ways around it TBH but a 10 episode final season would really be better

pixelburp · 08-10-2021 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994585#Comment_117994585

Really? I dunno, cos without

Duarte having those 30 years to establish Laconian power, and the means to poke the protomolecule bear, it's hard to compress that story. Not naturally anyway.

Especially the last moments of season 5 expressly hint towards that entire arc.

A lot of fans are pointing towards a couple of movies to wrap things up; ala Firefly / Serenity. Then again, maybe Netflix will pick it up again; they love giving dead shows 3 more seasons to finish things (and that's literally all we need here!)

08-10-2021 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994645#Comment_117994645

These be BOOK thoughts, DO NOT CLICK when just looking at the series

Instead of him finding just ship yards, have him find completed ships. No need to build up to the return.

Using the ships alone could be enough to kick that particular hornets nest.

But yeah, more seasons would be the most preferable

Homelander · 08-10-2021 7:30pm

****, only six episodes. Please god, please don't let The Expanse go down the Game of Thrones route. Now having said that, while GOT was suffocated in the last season by a breakneck pace, it also didn't help that the writing was utterly atrocious.

I think six episodes of roughly 60 minutes - while far too little obviously - is also enough time to play with that it can be wrapped up somewhat successfully with a clever, tight script.

All in all, we didn't do bad to get six seasons to be honest. There was a period there where it was on very rocky ground and on track to be cancelled outright. It might not be optimal, but it's without question been the best sci-fi on TV since Battlestar and I'm at least glad it got to go out on its own terms, an unideal as all as they might be.

pixelburp · 08-10-2021 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994679#Comment_117994679

Hmmm given the Builders didn't seem humanoid, seems unlikely the ships would be compatible straight out;

The series has made pains to emphasise how unknowable and alien the protomolecule race was; convenient ships might be a little too much.

In any case, there's just the pragmatism that at 6 episodes, they'll have enough time to wrap up the Free Navy plot and little else. Certainly the trailer showed no hint we're even going anywhere near the spoiler part. It'll frustrate but better the unfinished thread than yet another show with a rushed, shítty final season.

08-10-2021 8:37pm

Good to see this thread alive again - it's one of the few I kept as a fave after the site update. I'm not sure about how I feel about the new season, but I reckon it would probably need another 20 (at least) eps to close it out according to the existing books. I'll still watch, of course, but I think it's just gonna be a case of the later books being too complex to render onscreen.

breezy1985 · 08-10-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994557#Comment_117994557

Pushed to 2022 I think

08-10-2021 10:35pm

Still on amazon saying Nov 20th. Want to finish reading before watching final season

breezy1985 · 09-10-2021 1:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995665#Comment_117995665

Im hoping that the TV show will finish with the Inaros plot and leave the Laconia one for the future so there will be no need to read the last book before hand.

Can't wait to read it though

Icyseanfitz · 09-10-2021 3:52pm

6 episodes :( that sucks, cant believe they arnt continuing this show on either, particularly when there is so much drivel continuously renewed

pixelburp · 09-10-2021 4:11pm

It seems a common trend these days to have a reduced final season. Wonder what the thinking is;

The Expanse (Amazon) [** Spoilers **]

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The Expanse (Amazon) [ Spoilers ]