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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Two straight questions:

    1) Is the now deceased Guard from Bantry known by name?

    2) Of those who know the name, are they even scared in this forum to name that name?

    3) And if the name is known and they are scared to name them in this forum, can I ask to send me a PM?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14 LeVealerooooo




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    The better question is if Mr. Detective confessed why are people still protecting the secret?

    He chose to unburden himself on his deathbed presumably to ask for mercy/forgiveness. The same way he had shown mercy to STD family by sharing the truth. If I was his family I'd be aware I'm denying him his dying wish.

    They should make the information public and put it on the record. Let someone else decide on the validity.

    Post edited by OwlsZat on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    And who is "JOD" ?

    Regarding a deathbed confession I am only aware of the German musician who apparently confessed that he "did something terrible" to a friend of his.

    Other confessions are not known to me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    The detective of interest, who 2nd or 3rd or 4th hand information says gave a deathbed confession.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I presume because of that close knit community mindset? I’d say fear too. It is an open secret in bantry, I heard that IB has had people coming up to him over the years at the market and telling him things.

    I suppose if you assume at least a few Gards covered up for one of their own, then are modern day Gards any better? I’d hope so but who knows…maybe people thought if they made a statement or something it wouldn’t achieve much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Polly701


    Presumably the family of this JOD know about the rumours? If it was your family member being talked about within the local Community wouldn't you want the rumours quashed? Or maybe he doesn't have family still living in the area?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Or you could word it like:

    "presumably the family of this man know what he did"

    So, maybe they do. In that case they need to come forward don't they



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "The only speeding car witnessed near Toormore that morning was being driven by Ian Bailey in the direction of Sophie's house. This occurred sometime before news of the murder became widespread"

    Who witnessed this in the morning?


    "somebody had recorded showing Bailey crossing a police barrier and walking up the drive toward the house. This was a live crime scene!

    Was the police barrier tape still visible in this "footage"?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    @chicorytip I You've written "Bailey is just a sad.drunken loser". I wonder how you would consider the kind of people I regularly see on Dublin's boardwalk or even someone like Shane McGowan whose drink and drug problems appear to be much worse than Bailey's, a person who appears to have been able to conduct a loving relationship for almost 30 years with someone who appears very intelligent and dignified and has supported him throughout. No need to tell me about domestic abuse.

    Since you're so interested in evidence maybe you could answer a question that @tibruit ran away from;

    If the DPP's first report is very persuasive in accepting the truthfulness of what Ian Bailey says he was doing on the day of the murder and Shirley Foster contradicts him, she must be mistaken about something that would prove to be damning for Bailey. Why would she persist with her version of events knowing how serious it was?



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Alas, after 25yrs+, the realistic chances of resolving this murder are slim to none. (To apprehend the real killer)

    As for the Family of the Bantry Gard... If there ever was any substance to the rumours, they have sat on it for the last quarter of a century, I can't see the next generation breaking ranks anytime soon.

    As for Bailey, he didn't do it.

    The murder itself was brutal and barbaric. The victim's face smashed in beyond recognition, the assailant was evil personified.

    Instead of the community rising up in outrage, and being totally united to apprehending the vile animal that committed this atrocity, the very opposite occurred.

    From the Get-Go, a dark underbelly of suspicion and deceit was born. The very force that was meant to protect the community, began to manipulate it.

    The Gards told everybody that it was Bailey, he annihilated the petite French woman in a sexual rage, disfigured her beyond belief, and he would do it again. Nobody is safe whilst Bailey is walking the streets

    An assortment of criminal charges were dropped, reduced, and waived, on the understanding that favourable statements would be submitted to add substance to Bailey's involvement in the crime. An understanding that many locals (including so called friends) gladly availed of.

    What hold did the Gards have over numerous villagers that would sway them to become complicit in framing a man for murder? Why could the Gards not follow all the leads available to them at the time? What were they afraid of uncovering? Maybe what Bailey was on the verge of uncovering???

    Over 25rs has passed since that terrible night, people have moved on, people have died, the next generation has taken over..

    And yet, the dark shadow cast over West Cork still hasn't dissipated. The French Government are rattling a few Irish cages, they are looking for long overdue justice, why has it taken so long....? They know who it is, they told us 25yrs ago...

    It seemed strange to me.. The French start turning the heat up on the Irish Government to hand over Bailey, and then out of nowhere, right on cue.. Another witness marches to his solicitors after remembering that Jules Thomas told him she'd washed Bailey's bloodied clothes all them years ago..

    Or the two French friends of Sophie's, that recently recalled she had in fact mentioned she was to meet a strange poet in Schull... The irony of it.

    Bailey has done bad things, make no mistake about that. But there is far, far worse living in Schull today who know far, far more than they let on about the murder of Sophie Tuscan Du Plantier.

    What ever it takes, Bailey must take the fall. The more noise the French make, the more memories are recalled. I'm surprised we haven't seen pictures yet of Baileys mantlepiece, with Sophie's missing axe proudly displayed on the chimney breast. (Time yet.....)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14 LeVealerooooo




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Good post,I would however suggest it can't be said conclusively "Bailey didn't do it",we can all disagree on the strength/weakness of the evidence against him but I don't think I have ever seen a golden bullet piece of evidence that totally proves he didn't do it.You also mention convenient new information that incriminates Bailey but there is also 25 year old confessions being cited above to exonerate him so it goes both ways.On balance I think Bailey did it but accept there is not enough evidence to convict him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,159 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I guess if two versions of an event contradict each other one or both must be wrong?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    I have to insist with something here that a lot of people who know that Bailey didn't do it are uncomfortable with, but since you're looking for golden bullet evidence can you please show me that golden bullet in the case of the two people who first found the body. By their own admission they went up to Sophie's house having discovered the body and later both made statements (in the case of one of them gave evidence in court) that bolstered the case (framing) of Bailey. Marie Farrell eventually came clean but Alfie and Shirley Foster didn't retract what on balance are lies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Presumably, as a local open secret proliferates, the chances of an anonymous tip emerging, increases. The pool of possibility regarding the source of any tip received, is growing larger over time and couldn't possibly be reduced to any one person.

    Interesting that the possible "French Companion" was said to be keeping a discreet distance from Sophie. At first that might suggest he was stalking her but perhaps they were concerned with what consequences would result if a "problematic admirer" noticed.

    He bolted very fast by all accounts, did he witness something? was he threatened with harm or blame? His presence would naturally seem suspicious if he was an ex but perhaps she badly needed company so asked him along; was he staying in a local B&B as back-up if Sophie needed it? They may have agreed he wouldn't stay in the cottage for the same reason they were keeping their distance in the village.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    What would interest me, is why Bailey didn't really defend him self legally? By that I mean, having the ruling of the French court overturned by the EU court. I doubt very much that the highest court in the EU would convict a man to 25 years for murder if there is absolutely no shred of evidence to tie him to the murder, no DNA, no hair, no fingerprint, no fiber of clothes, no witnesses seen him, etc... Was that purely a financial motive not to take further legal action?

    Also, Bailey is an investigative journalist. One of the things he could have done is write a book about that murder. So many books have been written in similar circumstances, so why could Bailey not do it? Financially it would have been way more rewarding than this strange poetry.

    Regarding the theory of the Guard from Bantry: Again, when was he seen speeding in his Fiesta? Where did he go to next? Where did he clean himself up? Change clothes? Is anything known about his wife / family noticing? Is his behaviour known on the following day? Can anybody shed some light on these points?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Your statement "Eventually Marie Farrell came clean" is questionable.Most on here accept she is totally discredited as a witness so for you to choose when she was lying and when she was telling the truth is something that would not really stand up to examination.Others I accept have done the exact opposite and cited her initial statements as true and suggest her later statements were motivated by fear or greed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    While I agree with most of what you say I don't agree with this ;

    "The murder itself was brutal and barbaric. The victim's face smashed in beyond recognition, the assailant was evil personified."

    I would say that a case could be made that it was the complete opposite. We have heard of murders over the years in ireland where bodies were dismembered or burned and some where people were tortured to death. Using language like evil personified is a distraction that narrows down the list of suspects. It could just as easily have been that as with many arguments a person strikes out with a weapon before they realise they've gone too far and in panic decide to finish the job. Smashing the face beyond recognition might never have been the intention. It is interesting that the Guards at first considered a woman might have been the assailant because of that. What is more interesting was that they considered a woman would have been physically capable. The person who did this might have been as normal as any of us are but experienced a moment of madness.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    You're trying to be smart not addressing the substantial issue of Alfie and Shirley. Why don't you try?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I would personally never have considered a woman at first, but more like anybody if the evidence fits. However I often thought, it may possibly also have been a woman. ( and I am not indirectly pointing at Shirley ) but more to the motive. A cheating husband's wife, for instance would have had ample motive and more than passion to swing that cavity block more than multiple times. From an emotional point of view I would have guessed that any woman would have found it even harder to hide what she did than for a man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,347 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Also, Bailey is an investigative journalist. One of the things he could have done is write a book about that murder. So many books have been written in similar circumstances, so why could Bailey not do it? 

    Maybe it's because he knows he's got nothing, or very little. It's easy for him to drop dark hints about other suspects in interviews, and the tabloids will lap it up and run "Bailey: I Know Who Killed Sophie" splashes. But if he was writing a book he would be obliged to put meat on those bones and set out whatever evidence there is to back up those counter-theories. And if reviewers could see that evidence was very thin the whole thing would backfire horribly.

    Of course he could write "Bailey: the 25-year ordeal of an innocent man" and openly acknowledge "I don't have any clear idea who killed Sophie but I know it wasn't me." Maybe Jules didn't want their privacy further compromised with that sort of effort...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The latter part of your statement would have been the book, plus the possible theories. At least he would have made some money with it. And it would most likely have been better than the Sheridan documentary of the Netflix documentary. He also wouldn't have to do this ridiculous Virgin Media interview.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭dublin49


    I am not trying to be smart,I am questioning categorical statements of fact made by posters with a different perspective on the case to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Of course you're right about Marie Farrell. But you don't appear too troubled by the fact that there is nothing putting Bailey anywhere near the scene of the crime while you are happy to consider him guilty. How about you address the main point I make which is based on fact regarding the people who found the body and that golden bullet you look for to convince you of people's innocence?

    Or is it a case of guilty until proven guilty for Bailey?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19



    Anyone who thinks that French judiciary system is fair should listen to the Documentary on One currently on Rte1


    The story of Maureen Kearney.


    As innocent as you can get, but found guilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    I heard it, very interesting... made me want to research the case some more, but taking this documentary at face value for the moment it didn't paint the French judiciary in a good light



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any debate between the French 'conviction' of Ian Bailey V the Irish refusal to prosecute or extradite him should always include the name Maureen Kearney.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I honestly didn't know that the French judicial system was so bad.



This discussion has been closed.
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