Have FG finally noticed we have a vacant properties problem?

Right. Maybe give owners an incentive to get into, or stay in the rental market for x number of years until supply increases instead of what's happening now, owners cant wait to get out of renting. Maybe if the rent-a-room 14k tax treatment was applied to all rental income for x number of years, that might result in new rentals or at least stop some owners from leaving.

A lot of the reason they are empty is because it's so hard and expensive to remove a bad tenant. They claim there aren't many bad tenants but I'm not sure I trust the stats.

Only to the simplest of minds.

How do you know there is nobody living in a house? How do you legally verify it?

When I lived abroad and in one country I had to register my address at the local town hall. It seemed to me they knew who lived in every house. We do not do this.

Actually they were mostly the Tanaiste’s barriers a couple of months ago when he was explaining the difficulties with legislating for a vacant property tax. He basically said that there would have to be so many exemptions so as not to punish the people who were not being targeted, like the elderly/sick/people who have to move for work etc, that it would be difficult to prevent those who were being targeted from availing of the exemptions.

Now you pretty simplistic way of using only a time limit and a very narrow exemption who undoubtedly include those people the Government do not wish to penalise. Also, as I linked earlier, Government legislation has struggled to be enforced in relation to the similar site levy specifically because of the difficulties in defining what a vacant site is, and all the exemptions which had to be included which owners are now availing of.

So please, don’t be naive or stupid enough to think this legislation will be easy to write and enforce, ToD just blew a giant hole in your suggestion, how do the LA know a property has been vacant for 6 months?

I have to say this thread is unreal.

All the poor owners of empty houses have no choice but to let them rot as it's so hard being an LL. Would ye listen to yourselves?

And yes - I have been both a tenant and a LL.

The house next to mine has been empty for 2 years. Built in 2005. 2 bed with garden. Empty. One of thousands.

But this is not actually about Landlords and how tough it is and all of that. It is about the thousands and thousands of empty properties (not just houses/flats) all over this country that are being allowed to rot while we pump billions into helping developers build more properties at not just huge financial cost, but environmental cost too.

FG have finally noticed a lot of people are getting very angry about vacant and derelict properties and, as usual, their only solution is 'tax' - which then won't be collected.

There is a tax already. Local Authorities are meant to collect it. Most don't even have a Vacant Property Officer tasked with the job.

It is also not just accommodation - it is all kinds of properties. In Cork alone we have had streets closed and people injured in the city centre due to bits of buildings literally falling into the street. The Iconic Butter Market is in serious danger of collapse.

Thousands of properties within a 2km of the GPO in Cork have already been identified.

Have a look here at the twitter thread that started drawing attention to the problem. It's an eye opener :https://twitter.com/frank_oconnor/status/1275900684186062849

What can be done?

Derelict tax already exists - collect the tax. Take it out of the hands of the LAs and give it to Revenue. It could then be ring-fenced as a scheme to aid the renovation of derelict properties by owner occupiers/small indigenous businesses.

Dereliction to be clearly defined - such definitions could be 'is the property weathertight?' 'Is there significant internal damp?'. I'm sure structural engineers could come up with a checklist.

CPO derelict buildings. No owner can be found? Automatic CPO if no owner has come forward within a set period of time (govt can take funds from dormant bank accounts, this is not a million miles from that). If building is dangerous fast track CPO.

Owner personally liable for dangerous structures and any measures needed to stabilise them. Can't pay? Sign it over.

Schemes available to help FTB's buy properties that need to be renovated. In Liverpool and Italy houses are sold for a nominal sum (£1/€1) to people willing to do them up. Make mortgages available - perhaps via Credit Unions - to those willing to become owner occupiers of such properties - which cannot be sold for 5 years and if sold within 10 years 50% of any profit be taxed.

Schemes aimed at small, indigenous, business owners made available to encourage retail units with living accommodation 'over the shop' to renovate and rent out flats.

'Meanwhile use' encouraged so buildings are occupied short-term until owner can decide what they are doing with it.

Vacant property tax increased every year it lies empty. After 10 years (backdated if it can be proven e.g. via LPT returns) property becomes liable for automatic CPO. Use it or lose it.

Register of vacant/derelict properties to be properly maintained - this would be role of full-time Vacancy Officer. Public can identify property they believed to be vacant via an on-line form, VO tasked with officially confirming.

Local Authorities have to be accountable to the electorate. This current system of unelected City Managers presiding over their personal fiefdom has to end. It is undemocratic and bad for the areas they 'manage'. These managers need to account for why they haven't been collecting the taxes, why there are so many LA owned properties empty ( I counted 8 x 3 bed semis on one road in Cork - all close to schools, bus route etc), why the Vacant Property register is not kept up to date (at least one county - could be Louth but open to correction on that - has zero properties on it's register. Not one. For the whole county.)

There are more vacant properties in a 2km of Cork's GPO than homeless people in this country.

That is an utter disgrace but in a country experiencing a housing crises it is unconscionable. FG and FF allowed this to happen. What SF may or may not do is immaterial. The fact is there is a growing movement of voters who are angry and that will be expressed in elections.

I don't vote for FG/FF/SF so politically I have no skin in any but...but... party political bicker. I'm just one of the thousands of people sick of seeing the city I love fall down around us while my son and nieces and nephews struggle to find secure affordable accommodation. And if I think FG or FF or SF will seriously tackle this problem they will have my support. Somethings are bigger than party politics.

Again with the poor LL trope which deals with absolutely none of the points I raised. As Frank O'Conner's thread in twitters shows, and people in this thread have confirmed, there are properties that have never even been occupied, never mind rented out. There are also retail, heritage sites.

Why should people be allowed to hoard property to the point where it literally falls down and avoid paying the taxes they are liable for?

If people were hoarding fuel would you be telling me to buy a service station and sell them petrol?

Iv mentioned this case here before, local to me here.

A man who rented out his mother's house while she was in a nursing home rather than leave it empty.

The tenant stopped paying the rent for years, much hassle followed and required a trip to the local court to get him evicted. It would have been far more cheaper to leave it empty even if taxed a grand a year.

Again.

An utter failure to address the issue.

'We' have to deal when buildings start to fall and streets are closed. 'We' end up paying to shore them up, 'we' retailers lose business.

Someone knowingly leaves dangerous car in the street should 'we' pay for that too? Or just dumps their junker where ever they feel like it to allow it to rot but no tax paid because they don't want to- it's their car after all. Can do what they like with it.

Let's just do that with all our possessions. Dump your broken white goods/cars in your front garden when you are finished with them. All your property - can do what you like. F the neighbours.

Govt already said owners should be paying tax on vacant/derelict property - why is that not happening?

LAs have thousands of empty properties - are 'they' allowed to do that as 'they' own them?

Glad to see you support hoarding.

I suppose the answer to your question about why people should be allowed to hoard property is, in Ireland, provided it is legal to buy it, you can own it. At the moment if owners are paying any LPT/rates due on their properties, they are paying the taxes they are liable for.

Vacant property taxes will be targeted at investors, but in doing so, unless it is very carefully worded and enforced, it will target people it was never intended to. And as long as that distinction exists, there will be grey areas which will be taken advantage of and difficulties with enforcement.

There is no limit on what we can do with stuff we own...

Its a democracy...

I could own 10 cars and 3 houses...

When you have a govenment dictating that you cant its not a democracy...

Government need to get serious on giving away property to non tax payers

So you’ve got a vacant property next door to you for two years?

So what? The owner of that property is not obligated to account to you or anyone his or her absence from the property they have bought for.

This isn’t school “Dear Sir Please excuse my absence from my house today…”

The owners of the property could be people who’ve busted their butts paying a mortgage all their adult lives, have scrimped and saved and sacrificed their own wants to provide for their kids.

Maybe they have finally seen their kids reared and now are in the position to pursue their own unrealised dreams.

Perhaps they’ve decided to travel around the world for a few years , see a bit of the world while they are still able bodied enough to do it.

Who is anyone to say they cannot leave they cannot leave their own property?

I think you were missing his point.

Whether it’s a property owner that decided to take off and live in the States for five years or not is irreverent.

They are under no obligation to account for their absence from the property they have bought and paid for.

Our private property rights are not only enshrined in the Irish Constitution, but you might like to take up your issue with the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

Article 17

1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

The State cannot go around picking out citizens privately owned property and saying “Thou shalt not leave the house you busted your butt paying for all your adult life, for longer than six months or else we’re gonna punish you and / or seize your property from you to give to someone else.