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Landlord selling house

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    How will the contract be broken? If she signed a lease with the Landlord to rent the place, say up to 31st Oct 2021, then that lease will run its course. Has she ended it early? It doesn't sound like it. However, in the intervening time, she has likely established some additional rights. That is separate from the lease. When the lease is up, she is staying under those additional rights. Her ability to remain there depends on those additional rights and not on the lease (or contract as you refer to it).

    These are the things that people would be wise to understand before investing in property to rent it, or deciding to become a landlord rather than selling on a property. It can't be nice discovering the hard way when things go wrong.

    I will give you an analogy. There are employment rights which you are entitled to regardless of what is, or is not, stated in your employment contract. Back 20 or 30 years ago there was a thing where certain employers would give employees 1-year contracts, allow them to be unemployed for one day, then rehire them in order that those rights would not vest. It was actually quite common in the public sector. But now the law has changed to close those loopholes. An employer cannot keep letting you go and immediately rehiring you in order to keep you in a permanent state of "temporary staff". So even if your employer gets you to keep signing those contracts every year, your rights, and the employers obligations, are protected by legislation and are not waived because of your "contract". I can hire JimmyVik today and give you a contract up as far as 10th Oct 2022. Then on 11th Oct 2022 rehire you, then do the same on 10th Oct 2023 and so on. At the end of it we have some sort of dispute. I cannot claim that you are only entitled to what an employee of less than 1 year's standing would be entitled to. Even though that is what is in the contract.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    In this particular case the woman has been given her legal notice and has served her notice period.

    The landlord has it up for sale.

    Buyers are looking at and bidding on this house.

    The tenant asked could she stay on until the house is sold and the owner said yes as long as she is gone before the contracts are signed.

    What the owner doesnt know is she is brazenly bragging to everyone what her plan is. She has been advised by threshold to overhold if she cant find somewhere to live. So that is what she is saying she is going to do because rents are too expensive and she cant afford to move.





  • I’m certainly getting out of letting, a mug’s game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    But why can you not understand that her bragging about whatever is nothing to do with the lease? There are separate rules which are put in to protect tenants that she is planning to abuse and take advantage of. Those exists outside the terms of her specific lease.

    If a landlord naively signs a lease without realising the the tenant will gain additional rights over time outside of the lease, then that is just a harsh lesson for them. The landlord will just learn the hard way what they should have been aware from the start could potentially happen


    It's not right for someone to abuse those rules and protections, but that's the game and the rules of the game.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Her rights are that she has to leave, as long as appropriate notice is given. The house is being sold. Period. The same as my tenants had to when I moved back in myself



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think you misunderstand what the word "rights" mean. If she currently has possession of the property then you're going to have a little bit of trouble on your hands. Just because you don't like the reality of the situation, and may delude yourself as to what could potentially happen, does not mean that it cannot!

    Let's see how that pans out if she decides not to leave. You might get a bit of a land if you ended up in court for arriving the next day and just turfing her out. But if you want to learn the hard way, fire ahead. You can explain to the judge that the tenant's only right was to leave the property. See how far it gets you



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    yes, she has possession and so can play the game. She has no right to be in the property, but unfortunately our law is now weighted in her favour. She is in the wrong. And getting a**hole tenants is a risk that every landlord takes. My point was that she is in the wrong here and unfortunately it is the fault of our system that she can string this along.

    This why even though I am now away from Dublin for a couple of years l will be leaving my flat empty rather than renting it out. Its unfortunate and is contributing to the housing crisis but it is the fault of people like this that I feel the need to do that



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    As you say, the law is weighted in her favour. If she wants to dig her heels in you would need to go through the steps. You would get her out eventually but she, unfortunately, has the right to drag you through that process and it will take time. It isn't morally right but she can do it if she wants to.

    Your point is very valid about leaving your own place unused. I also have a friend whom I met while abroad who similarly left her Dublin apartment unused for the time she was away (maybe over 3 years) and for the same reason. It does contribute to the shortage and I mentioned that story on here a long time ago in that context.

    I don't know whether you would be able to do up some kind of caretaker agreement with someone you already know and trust rather than a lease for your own property. Someone on here might be able to point you in the right direction if that was possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik



    The kids are in a play group together.

    The Mrs was telling me this woman and another couple of them are always bragging about stuff like this.

    They see this as getting one over on a big bad man. They dont see the damage they are doing to al the people who may be looking to buy that house and all along the chain if there is one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Life is full of selfish people. It is unfortunately a risk of being in that game. It is why you can potentially get very good returns on property at a time that wholesale rates are zero or negative



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    They want to tax you next for leaving it empty :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,375 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    OP would do well to remember that they will need a reference if they have to rent another property. Be a dick to the landlord and that becomes a lot more difficult..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m walking away from 2 years rent. Would need to be a lot of tax to offset the risk of bad tenants with the law on their side….a risk that seems to be increasing



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    TBF it cant be easy on the tenant if they've tried to find a new rental and there's nothing available but if they are overholding it's also going to impact on the family buying the house and possibly other families in a buying chain. Nobody wins in a situation like this, everyone has rights and it is unfair for one persons actions to negatively impact on someone else's rights imo.

    People say a landlord should know the rules of the game but that applies to renters also, they also know the rules and know there is a high probability they will have to vacate a private rental at some point. The landlord gave correct notice and is entitled to his house. I feel a lot of sympathy for the tenants situation too. Local councils need to do better.



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They don't sound very pleasant but why would they particularly be bothered about someone in a chain?

    Several years ago my landlord decided to sell and went about it ham-fistedly giving illegally short notice to leave while expecting access for decorating and viewing.

    I was only thinking about what was best for my family, if that conflicted with what the landlord wanted so be it.

    After a quick education from myself, presumably confirmed by his solicitor, we agreed a date to vacate, he then redecorated and had it sold within a month.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hear ya. I eventually got a bad tenant out and I won’t be renting it out again. Had loads of desperate people looking to rent it off me but once bitten and all that. Their problems are not gonna turn into my problem.

    I’ll cross the vacant property tax bridge if it comes to it but I may find myself separating from my OH every once in a while 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    So you are confident that the capital appreciation cost minus the expenses of maintaining the house would outweigh other possible investments open to you? Or are you keeping it as a backup in case you need to move back into it? It is fair enough for you to try it if you want. There are other ways of getting exposure to the housing/property market though without taking on the same headaches

    You'd want to check things like insurance etc. You might be paying regular insurance and then find that, if you need to make a claim for anything, that you are not covered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Even if done properly, the tenant can string it out. Adjudication, tribunal, district court, sheriff with a possible trip to the High Court and the Circuit court in between.

    It could take years. Some people are lucky, they give notice and the tenant leaves. Others are unlucky and the tenant won't go.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, too much risk for a landlord. Not a chance I’m renting my flat while it’s sitting empty

    which is a real shame for those looking for accommodation. It’s a nice flat. But some people have ruined it for everyone



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I’m keeping it for my kids. It was our home when I was a single parent and even though they’ve now grown up and moved to the other side of the world, it will be their home whenever they are back in the country.

    As it stands, there wouldn’t be much to to give them if I sold it tomorrow and paid back what I borrowed. But I’m happy to keep paying the mortgage in the knowledge that I have something of worth to leave to them when I’m gone.

    I’m up at the house most days so I’m not concerned from an insurance POV Have even stayed there a few nights for a change.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,547 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The thing about insurance is your policy might have you insured as an owner occupier. They will continue to take your money but might try to get out of paying up if the worst happened



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure it’s a risk. But still less than the risk of having a bad tenant hold you to to ransom when you need the property back



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Noted. My landlord policy is still currently valid and that covers me and/or a tenant/s.

    As I said, I’m up there most days. There’s tea, coffee and biscuits in the cupboard. Milk and beers in the fridge. All the beds are brand new and freshly made. Towels, loo roll, shower gel, shampoo and sanitary products in the bathrooms. WiFi is on and tv has Netflix.

    It’s very much a home 😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Well what that person doesnt seem to get its acting the way she is acting that ultimately leads to her paying more rent and the scarcity she is experiencing.

    Her (i mean people doing the same thing) actions have contributed to the situation on many levels.

    some people in the chain now must stay renting, taking several properties off the market.

    That is probably annoying the owners of properties who will sell up. Less rentals again.

    Any who stay must balance risk against reward leading to higher rents.

    Its so intertwined its impossible to see what the action of one person could lead to. But none of it is good.



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