Aggressive modding in regional forums

CastorTroy · 11-10-2021 5:34pm

If someone went on to the a Manchester United thread just to say United sucks or onto the pro wrestling forum to say wrestling is fake, what would that be called?

The thread was great for information before but now I find I'm skipping posts/pages which are the same questions and comments about how people affected shouldn't get what they want. And it's said so matter of fact. And repeated so often.

Others have argued against the "echo chamber" and were listened to and agreed with. Like compromises in the scheme are to be expected and that's the negotiation going on so no one is disputing that we mightn't get everything. But coming in and basically saying "You should be happy your getting anything at all" is not the way to have a discussion.

MrMusician18 · 11-10-2021 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005409#Comment_118005409

Can you tell us the value of the compensation package you are seeking. If you can't, but the government agrees to pay "whatever it takes", what number will they put on the cheque before you start? Would it be blank?

The term in the figurative sense, is used to describe a situation in which an agreement has been made that is open-ended or vague, or in which a party is willing to consider any expense in the pursuance of their goals.

Accurately seems to describe 100% redress doesn't it? Vague, check, open ended check, any expense-whatever it takes, check. Bit mad that the term has been banned by the moderator - probably because it is inconvenient for the narrative being spun.

jj880 · 11-10-2021 5:56pm

Muffler handed out the most warnings in a thread I've ever seen to 1 poster in particular before eventually banning them.

I even called for them to be banned but he wouldnt hear of it.

Recently with the media coverage this scandal has been getting the amount of posters coming into the Donegal mica thread has increased.

The repetition of the same arguments / questions being posted is absolutely head wrecking.

If all posters were to get the same amount of warnings now before getting banned it would be chaos. From what I can see posters are now being warned and then banned if they continue baiting or they ignore mod instruction. Seems fair.

listermint · 11-10-2021 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005648#Comment_118005648

Pump the brakes there this is more of the same inflammatory nonsense that's been argued once again here. I started this thread on context about the moderation.

I nor anyone else came on to the thread and said your house sucks. The equivalence is not reality so enough with the poorly constructed analogies.

Once again where and when did I say, and i quote you supposedly quoting me... 'you should be happy your getting anything at all"

You are literally making stuff up to support an argument for poor moderation, and a single line of posting on the forum . Which is - 'agree with us entirely or get out'

To make your analogies even remotely credibile it would be akin to posters coming on to the Manchester United forum and questioning Ollie's team formation for the last game and wondering if he got it wrong and what was the game plan with the substitutions. None of which would be considered trolling.

If you are going to argue for the moderation and against the opening of this very thread then at least argue in good faith. I've yet to see one example of good faith today. The majority of posters against it have either called me a troll or consistently implied I'm a troll without using the word to circumvent being caught out or one called me a dickhead. This is the depths it's got to. It's endemic on the thread as it was endemic in the poorly thrown together protest movement where the loudest person seems to be chief of the movement. I don't see how on any metric this is going to keep up very pro government involvement tax payers like myself to continue in that line of thinking. It's now achieving entirely the opposite effect. And frankly you may see more of that based on actions going on. And would you blame anyone for turning their back when this is what's going on .

listermint · 11-10-2021 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005789#Comment_118005789

There's a card system . It's part of the charter it's not used. The terms are not in a sticky banning terms is not in the charter is poor moderation.

Someone else should be in charge of that thread .

malinheader · 11-10-2021 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005804#Comment_118005804

Perhaps it's just an excuse your looking for so if the families don't get what they need your conscience won't be pricking you when you turn your back. I think like alot on here your mind was made up long before you started posting. But that's only my opinion.

listermint · 11-10-2021 6:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005824#Comment_118005824

Yep that's right. Way to get the public on your side. To be honest if the group of families involved took half the good advice dished out in the politics or Donegal thread this issue may have been brought to a programme some years ago. Having it run and controlled by people who think shouting and shutting down roads gets stuff done is ridiculous.

And I don't think much of your opinion tbh. You don't know me or my social conscience for others. Cheers though.

malinheader · 11-10-2021 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005844#Comment_118005844

I think as much of your opinions as you think of mine, so finally we found something we have in common.

And let me tell you something I know for sure, the only reason these ordinary people are shouting and protesting is because no one has taken notice for over ten or more years.

What's it going to take. A house to collapse on a family before people realise the seriousness of the situation.

listermint · 11-10-2021 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005883#Comment_118005883

No they're shouting for blanket 100 percent redress . And let me tell you something it's actually not all of them shouting this. If argue the majority just want to get out of the hole their family homes are in. But it's been hijacked by a core wanting more than that . But that's for the threads not for here. This thread is specifically about the relationship of the mod to the subject matter and how it's tainted their ability to moderate the thread. They aren't abiding by the charters, that aren't issuing cards, and they are making up exclusions on the fly.

DrPhilG · 11-10-2021 6:33pm

On a side note what exactly is the point of this thread? I understand the reason for it being started, ie that some believe Muffler is being biased in his moderation

Others think that Muffler has done well in the face of severe provocation and this is just a witch hunt by those he banned.

But this isn't going to be decided by us mere mortals arguing either side. This should be reviewed by a senior Mod, admin, whoever. Then a decision made and that's that.

I see no purpose being served in both sides firing back and forth.

listermint · 11-10-2021 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005943#Comment_118005943

100 percent agree.

Which is why I'm confused as to why this was moved here by the mod. It seems like a dispute issue but it's sitting in the upper tier forum .

It's either a dispute or its not why the move?

screamer · 11-10-2021 6:42pm

I also fell fowl of pc mod in that thread. If you don’t 100% agree with the 100% redress or challenge their entitlement beliefs, you get banned. They can keep it, build a wall around, but I agree 100% it’s not a discussion post, and the modding leaves a lot to be desired.

malinheader · 11-10-2021 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005983#Comment_118005983

Not hard to see why you fell fowl reading your post.

RandomViewer · 11-10-2021 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118004103#Comment_118004103

You've got to admit that you have been been awkward for awkward sake and many suspect you may not be an honest broker in this

Penfailed · 11-10-2021 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005681#Comment_118005681

That's the very type of post that is objectionable to many in the Donegal forum.

Penfailed · 11-10-2021 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005906#Comment_118005906

Cards haven't been a thing since the forum updated. I'm not even sure if they're a thing anymore. Perhaps the Charters should be updated.

firemansam4 · 11-10-2021 7:22pm

Ive popped in and out of this thread sporadically, and as far as I can see Muffler has been very fair in his modding to date.

He has given plenty of warnings to terms like mcmansion being used which brings nothing to the discussion, only to patronise and insult people, many who may be reading this thread that are going through this mica nightmare at this time.

RandomViewer · 11-10-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005040#Comment_118005040

So you'll start a thread on poor procurement procedures in government?

11-10-2021 7:42pm

I think moderation across the site has been very poor for a couple of years at least now..

Mods very often "moderate" in line with their biases..

MrMusician18 · 11-10-2021 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006228#Comment_118006228

To be honest, in the big forums that I not normally frequent it's been ok (there is always room for improvement). Its definitely more relaxed than the early 2010's when there were some real clowns moderating politics and after hours.

I don't wander to often into the regional forums, so this is my first experience of a fiefdom within boards.

Beasty · 11-10-2021 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005948#Comment_118005948

The Dispute Resolution Forum deals with disputes over formal warnings or bans. Other complaints are dealt with in Help Desk, which is why this thread has been moved here. Your points are noted and the comments of others within this thread are also noted. This thread has descended into bickering. I am closing it. The underlying complaint will be reviewed, but given other priorities on this site I am not committing to any specific timescale

Beasty · 13-10-2021 5:10pm

I have looked through posts in the thread since the beginning of the month. I would get one simple matter out of the way first. The mod does switch between using bold and non-bold when modding, and I do think it would improve things if they did consistently use bold. Having said that is it very clear when they are posting as a mod, be it in bold or otherwise. They have also posted their own comments on the matter, although that was relatively limited during that period. In an ideal world we would have modding resource to allow someone who is not involved in a discussion to intervene when necessary. This particular world is far from ideal though, and often we have to get involved in modding even if very active in a thread. This has been exacerbated since the platform changeover with some mods not as involved due to limited modding functions

Was the mod aggressive? Not in my view, given the underlying topic and it's impact on the Donegal population. Mica is always going to raise tensions in Donegal given the current situation. Regional forums should not be considered a level playing field when discussing topics that are of particular relevance to the region. There are other forums that can be considered "neutral territory" including Politics (if you wish to have a serious discussion under a very formal set of rules, or Current Affairs which accommodates less formal discussion. I would point posters to the section in the charter

4. Making the natives restless.

- This is a catch-all rule for general trolling, baiting, bitching and similar. Certain posters can have an ability to piss off large quantities of regulars on here. If a moderator feels that said poster is doing this intentionally or is the cause of the mess, then the poster can and will be banned. If this poster was being unduly goaded by others, then they'll be the ones getting banned. This rule will hopefully put an end to the occasional instance where "non regulars" troll the regulars.

That is very clear. What is also clear is certain posters descended on the thread due to their disagreement with the behaviour of certain protestors in recent times. Some of the "regulars" also were of the view that the protesters went too far, but that is not the point here. If you are going to come into a regional forum telling locals what is good for them, or how they are all so wrong you can expect sanction. I have no issues with the actions taken by the moderator here

I am re-opening the thread for further comment but if the bickering returns then it will be closed again, this time permanently

Dr Turk Turkelton · 13-10-2021 5:23pm

Ah Beasty in all fairness to you I normally respect the decisions you make but in this case the mod is way overstepping their boundaries.

I have no dog in this fight(except as a taxpayer) and I know its a Donegal forum but it's not much of a discussion if all the posts are only allowed to be in favour of one side.

If these people are to get some form of help from the government they better be prepared for some tougher questions than the good posters of boards can throw at them.

Beasty · 13-10-2021 5:26pm

As I've already indicated there are other forums if you wish to discuss this topic on neutral territory

EDIT: As a matter of interest would you look to venture into regional forums other than ones you have specific interest in to discuss matters that primarily affect that region?

DrPhilG · 13-10-2021 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015280#Comment_118015280

That's been the question I've asked a few times without much of a sensible response.

Why do the few posters (now banned) have the desire to go into the local forum to argue? It will obviously be populated largely by victims of the scandal or those whose friends and family are affected so why would you want to go in there to lecture them on how they shouldn't get 100% or in the case of the most recent ban recipient, to tell them that they should suck it up instead of coming with the begging bowl?

The only reply I've had was that they do it because they are entitled to. Which doesn't answer the question of why they want to.

If they have concerns about the implications on the tax payer and the long term effects on the economy, then the politics thread serves all of those purposes.

Anyway, thanks for the input/ruling @Beasty. Glad this has been put to bed.

MrMusician18 · 13-10-2021 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015207#Comment_118015207

Hi @Beasty,

If I recall correctly, Item 4 "making the natives restless" is a new recent addition to the charter. I don't believe any process was went through to amend the charter, nor was any attention drawn to the change. Not great tbh, I'm sure you'll agree.

I had a PM discussion about this earlier in the year with mod muffler. Sadly all that has been lost with the move to Vanilla. If you look at the charter on the wayback machine, (unfortunately its 2016 - but the charter is dated 2007, as is now.) this section doesn't appear.

I have further comments to make on the rest of your post - but just wanted to address this point now. You might ask Muffler if he made a recent unflagged change to the charter.

jj880 · 13-10-2021 7:03pm

We all had our chance to have input here before Beasty's decision. Is this still up for debate? I thought this thread would be locked now.

listermint · 13-10-2021 7:04pm

Thanks for taking the time to look this over Beasty. I know it takes a level of effort to read through pages of Information.

I have to say though it's an unusual take on the subject to deem it acceptable to make forums no man's land for outsiders. Yes it's a regional forum . Yes this particular thread is quite a regional issue but yes it also begs the question for a national response. Based on that alone there should not be this push to exclude national input.

This ruling ensures that boards is creating so called safe spaces for single sided discussion backed up by objectively one sided moderation.

I can appreciate that the ruling here most likely comes down to the lack of availability of individuals to moderate rather than resolving the issue.

My final point on this matter is that changes to the charter have been done on the fly. There is nothing in the charter indicating banning of the English language . And the broad determination of what constitutes trolling leaves the moderator with absolute power which they can modify at a whim.

It's a poor reflection of a rules based system and Ive personally no appetite to go back to the forum at all. It's an aggressive place it has an aggressive response to outsiders and posters congregate en masse as has seen by the group response on this thread.

Il leave them to it.

Beasty · 13-10-2021 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015719#Comment_118015719

I think it's only fair to give everyone a further chance to express their views. Some work has gone into my review, but I may not pick up all the nuances, and there may be people who strongly disagree with the approach I have adopted. So long as people post here in a constructive manner I have no problem in continuing to engage and if necessary provide further explanation of why I came to the conclusions I have laid out above

Beasty · 13-10-2021 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015725#Comment_118015725

I think this is a very sensitive issue that adversely affects many in Donegal. I modded a region some time ago, and found there was a strong community who often supported each other with the issues they faced. Now I have little doubt there will be people within Donegal who object to the campaign that is underway, and it would be unfair to disenfranchise them. they are entitled to make their views known, and in my experience it is very easy to agree to differ on such matters.

However I do think it different when someone from outside that "online community" comes in to tell them how wrong they are. I do not think that should prevent others from contributing to such threads, but I do think those who do need to do so in a constructive manner recognising there may be strong feelings. I think we probably both know that on this particular topic you will find resistance from many who do live in Donegal precisely because this issue is starting them in their face every day of every week. To have a "properly balanced" debate on such matters as I say above I think we have other forums that can facilitate that

On your "banning of English" point, did that mean to read "banning of Irish"? - throughout the history of the site we have stated that conversations should be in English except for dedicated "other language" forums or indeed threads. Indeed if anyone decided to start an argument in Irish in any of the forums I moderate I would have no idea what was going on as I am a native of Yorkshire with zero knowledge of the Irish language. This has always been a site-wide rule and not one that needs to be embedded in any individual forum charter

Aggressive modding in regional forums

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