2021 NFL season - Week 5 thread

Foxtrol · 11-10-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003253#Comment_118003253

Fully agree - there is no guaranteed 'right way' to bring in a rookie QB but recent evidence doesn't point to starting them early being a negative.

As you mentioned earlier, if you look beyond the passing stats Lance gained more yards than Murray, who has significantly better weapons and been in the MVP conversation. He is the 4th youngest QB ever to start a game in the Super Bowl era and came within a few inches and a few drops from going on the road and beating a divisional rival that is the last remaining undefeated team in the NFL

The biggest knock on Lance coming out was his lack of game time, having played one full season at a lower college level, and then having COVID ruin last season. There was a drastic improvement in his performance yesterday compared to when he came in against the Seahawks - far from perfect but much, much less like a deer in headlights. That improvement was with a half of NFL experience, a game plan designed for him, and one week of taking QB starter reps.

If Jimmy G was playing at the level Alex Smith was when Mahomes sat for the year I wouldn't have an issue with Lance sitting - as the 49ers would be contenders. What we have unfortunately seen this year is Jimmy at his usual lows that are very low and then highs that just okay. Given that, I don't see the downside in sticking with Lance. Yesterday was only his 2nd start in nearly two years - he'll learn far more from getting all the starting QB snaps in practice, going out and getting used to NFL speed, testing what he can and can't get away with against live defenders (like that he can't bowl them over like in college), making some mistakes like all the rookies are making, than playing as the scout team QB for the year.

Overall, very happy with what we say yesterday. With such minimal time to prepare and exposure he showed the ceiling that made him the 3rd pick and what we've been missing the last few years with Jimmy as QB.

Foxtrol · 11-10-2021 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005248#Comment_118005248

This is probably the one argument I understand as a reason to sit him but I expect he learned more from that game yesterday in regards to protecting himself than he would have in a year being a backup. You don't hit QBs in practice so whenever he got on the field he was going to try things that he got away with in college - he regularly bowled over guys in college with similar runs but it is a very different world in the NFL.

Some of the hits he took I blame on Kyle. I'm sure he removed elements of the usual window dressing to simplify things for Lance but some of the QB power runs they did from an empty backfield with no motion so the defense could go full speed at Lance. To make things worse I counted a few times they ran Lance towards the weakest part of our OL (RG).

It wasn't like the OL was putting him in a position to get murdered out there, which would have been a reason for me to sit him. They held up pretty well and Lance had the awareness to use his legs most of the time when things broke down. The OL did commit a lot of holds which is likely down to them trying to get used to playing with a QB that is mobile and adjusting their form - which is just another argument as to why the more reps Lance plays the quicker the team will get used to those things (same with the WRs knowing what to do when he scrambles and catching balls with way more power).

Christy42 · 12-10-2021 12:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118004791#Comment_118004791

All your evidence says is that historically QBs sat for at least a year with some exceptions. Hence people who sat a year dominate historical stats because most QBs who are old enough to hold historical records sat a year as opposed to QBs sitting a year doing better.

Added to this coming from college to the pros isn't the same as 20 years ago so the comparison isn't as valid.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 12:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007174#Comment_118007174

So a trend that has QBs from the 60's, 70's, 2000's and then Mahomes isn't good enough for you?

Whose the best QB in the league the last three years? Who were the two best for the previous ten? If I said the answers to those questions were Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers would you agree? They all sat to start their careers.

How recent do we need to go?

Josh Allen got to start early in his career but the plan was to sit him. That changed because Nate Peterman was horrendous.

How many can you name that came out recently, started straight away and are contending for MVP honours?

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 1:25am

Hell of a start to MNF.

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 3:14am

Oh dear, Lamar is having a shocker. A fumble from near the goal line goes the other way for 6, lovely little offload as well from the Colts.

Edit: Boo, it's coming back for an illegal forward pass.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 3:24am

Ravens are awful tonight but they're not out of it yet. I've seen the Colts blowing great opportunities already this season, I hope they don't do it here.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 3:48am

19 point lead is now 7 and plenty of time left.

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 3:59am

Good drive here from the Colts, running down the clock nicely and in scoring position now.

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 4:01am

And a blocked FG, good ending coming up.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 4:14am

Colts are the best team in the league at blowing a winning position.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 4:17am

Colts in field goal range right at the end but there's big question marks over Blankenship's health so we don't know if he can hit it.

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 4:19am

Yep, he shanks it again. Might be on the street tomorrow.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 4:20am

Blankenship missed it, we are going to overtime.

Xavi6 · 12-10-2021 4:33am

Lamar ends with 37/43 for 442 yards and 4 TDs, 335 of them after half time. Overcame the earlier issues with the fumble and little things like tripping over a lineman, impressive stuff.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 4:33am

Ravens do it. Lamar 442 passing yards and 62 rushing, over 500 yards of offense.

Ravens run of consecutive 100+ yards rushing games ended tonight as they only had 86.

Itssoeasy · 12-10-2021 7:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987574#Comment_117987574

11-5 for this week and if I’d picked the eagles like I normally used to do and not picked the jets for some bizarre reason id have had an even better week.

So 46-34 after five weeks.

Christy42 · 12-10-2021 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007226#Comment_118007226

It isn't a trend unless you can show that QBs who started early have done worse.

Not competing for mvp straight away but Josh Allen, Peyton, Herbert, Dak, Wilson, Ryan, Stafford all started right away and that is without checking about anyone else. All learned how to play on the job. The plan was to sit Allen but he didn't sit so it is irrelevant, he learned while starting. It was not the plan for all of them but it happened and they thrived.

It isn't a trend if everyone was sitting so there is a control. I reckon it depends on the QB and the team but a QB can have success with either strategy. I would be sitting Wilson (ideally, the Jets don't have an option) since he always seemed to have a lot more basics to learn than the other 4.

Good to see Gruden gone and that was a great game last night. Especially once Ravens stopped forcing the run and take the pass yards that were there.

paulie21 · 12-10-2021 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987669#Comment_117987669

12-4 takes me to 49-31 on season

collybyrne · 12-10-2021 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986778#Comment_117986778

12 - 4 this week takes me to 53 - 27 for the season.

Didn't get to see as much live as I would have liked so leaned heavily on the YouTube highlights on Monday to catch-up. Tough weekend for any Giants and Lions fans on here. Don't know what you guys think but I liked seeing the emotion from Dan Campbell in his presser. I know you can't run a team long term on emotion but that franchise has been a tire fire for so long now and even though they haven't picked up a win you can't help but feel those guys would run through walls for him as a coach.

For all the missed FG's in the Packers Bengals game I always felt it was GB's to win, they just made hard work of it. As for Browns Chargers, what an absolute shoot-out between two offenses playing with no fear and no shortage of talent to back it up. The Browns have been on the wrong end of two of these now with the Chiefs and Chargers and it's just hard to see them getting over the hump against the really elite teams this year.

Final word to the Bills who look every inch the AFC champs this year already. It's one of the things I love about the NFL is that every few years a franchise comes along from the absolute wilderness and within a couple of draft picks, signings and coaching appointments becomes a contender. For as long as I've been following football the Bills have never been more than an afterthought. Being honest, I don't think anyone thought Allen was the answer either for the first two seasons. But yet here they are looking like an absolute powerhouse and potentially the best team in football this year. Fair play to them and their fans, gives hope to everyone out there I think.

12-10-2021 12:09pm

Over 500 yards...not bad for a running back!

adrian522 · 12-10-2021 1:18pm

I think at this point we need to accept that the Chiefs are in a bit of trouble. They are turning the ball over too much and their defense can't stop anyone. On the other hand you could argue that they have lost to 3 of the best teams in the AFC but I really think they are struggling. Reid's game plan didn't exactly inspire confidence either.

Buffalo looked really good, I think you have to say that Allen is for real as he looks just as good now as he did last year, though he will have to face better defenses than he has so far.

The other big take away so far is the chargers, hey are a lot better than I thought they'd be. They have a weakness in run defense, but when your offense is that good and you can be good against the pass, stopping the run isn't usually an issue as you are playing with a lead a lot of the time.

NFC, I still rate the Rams and Buccs as the pick of the bunch. Arizona do look good and Murray is playing lights out but but I think they will fall off a bit later in the year. Green Bay are another team than can flash from time to time but I find it hard to trust them once they come up against better opponents to be honest.

Next week should be interesting with the Chargers @ Baltimore and Arizona going to Cleveland.

eagle eye · 12-10-2021 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007724#Comment_118007724

Every metric you look at points to the best QB's starting the careers on the bench. Last five Superbowl winners were QB'd by three different QB's who all started their careers on the bench. There's recency for you.

Last five NFL MVP's, four started their careers on the bench, one went straight in as starter. There's more recency for you.

Add them to the three QB's with the most Superbowl wins who all started on the bench and big majority of all time passing yardage and passing TD leaders who started on the bench.

Paleface · 13-10-2021 9:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987583#Comment_117987583

13 - 3 for the week which brings me to 53 - 27 overall.

Christy42 · 14-10-2021 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989011#Comment_117989011

13-3 for an unexpectedly good week. 52-28 overall

2021 NFL season - Week 5 thread

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