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General Emulation Discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    @Retr0gamer I'll take a look on my end and see. I've read standalone mednafen doesn't give this issue, so maybe there's a bug in the libretro saturn core?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I gave standalone mednafen a go as well and it dumps you to the bios.

    I've got the PC version working and it doesn't seem to be an issue with any other games. The issue with Enemy Zero is there's no save at the disc swap. In most games there is a save so being booted to the bios just means you load the new disc from there no issues. Enemy Zero doesn't have those disc change saves because the game as a feature actually limits the amount of times you can save so probably didn't want to force it on players.

    There's very few multi disc saturn games really and any I've read allow disc changes.

    At least disc changes work on PS1. I know from personal experience Koudelka is the same. I tried playing a pirated copy and there was no disc change save but when you changed the disc it would do a piracy test which ended my game at disc 1! I had to..... buy a legit copy of the game 😱

    That shouldn't be an issue with PS1 emulation now. But I'd also recommend not to play Koudelka because it's not good!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    @Retr0gamer how far is it between the save point and the disc swap prompt?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Easiest and quickest way to check is to boot up disc 0 which is just a cinematic disc with a training mode. You can skip the opening cinematic and when you select start it will go to the disc prompt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    @Retr0gamer nevermind, I've been able to reproduce it with that game. If you boot from Disc 0, and choose to start the game, it'll ask for Disc 1. Upon swapping it, I can see the system resetting to the bios. I'm able to just start disc 1 then, but any progress presumably won't follow over due to the reset. It happens in Beetle Saturn, Yabause, and Kronos. To be fair, what they're doing is what actual hardware would do upon opening of a disc tray lid....this game in particular must be using some type of voodoo to halt the Saturn and not cause that reset somehow. Still, shame.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Yeah disc swap games can override that behaviour but it's just not implemented yet. Still I think enemy zero is the only game affected but the PC version works really well so there's that at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I'm near the end. It's more interesting than good. It's kind of a mix of D and a horror fps.

    The adventure sections are decent but a bit slow but it's a game that relies on the player activating triggers to progress and it can be frustrating when you are stuck.

    The fps parts are a lot better. Basically you have a gun with maybe 2 or 3 shots and are being hunted by invisible enemies. You can only tell their position from the sounds from a proximity locator you have. Also the gun isn't effective unless you are at point blank range. It's genuinely tense and terrifying. Also you can save and load your game only a set number of times but I found even on normal mode you have plenty saves.

    The story is really dated. It's kind of trying to be cinematic but it's badly written and just rips off the aliens games. The cgi is really good, probably the best at the time until ff7 came out a month later.

    The soundtrack is gorgeous. Kenji Eno managed to get Michael nymen to do the soundtrack by locking him in is own hotel room and not letting him leave until he agreed to do it. It's a pity the soundtrack isnt attached to a better game.

    Anyway it's interesting enough to give it a try and have a walkthrough handy for when you get stuck. It's short enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Someone from GBATemp discovered that the recent "Cotton Guardian Force Saturn Tribute" release on the Switch, isn't using some custom/tailored Saturn emulator that only applies to these games...but instead seems to be a VERY functional global Saturn emulator.....complete now with 4MB Expansion support. You seemingly need to just inject your Saturn game into the emulator and boom, fantastic Saturn emulation on Switch (Switch running cfw of course.)

    HOWEVER - input lag seems to be an issue, with some users reporting a whopping 11 frames of lag. Seemingly (according to one of the Mame dev's on that Reddit thread, Saturn games on real hardware do exhibit some input lag natively....but 11 seems excessive.) Maybe it can be improved upon? The Switch hardware is seriously outdated, which isn't helping the case here, so whatever they've achieved is impressive regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Some nice info on souping up Gran Turismo 2 to look pretty shiny and smooooooth




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Showcase of where things are at currently with OG Xbox emulation - an even at that, it's missing some info like the newer multiplayer features etc



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Just a follow up on this, it's been found that the saturn emulator for these games is just SSF. This also explains the excessive input lag as it's a big issue with at that emulator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well the author pulled a branch from github recently, the first time in ages so they were probably working with him. They say they are trying to fix the lag issue but since it seems to be inherent to SSF it might not happen. I think SSF is the only decent fast saturn emulator with open source so maybe why mednafen was a no go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Would the open source license there not prohibit packaging the compiled emulator as a retail product?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Yep but as I said it looked like they were working with the SSF author for this one so it would have been above board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭The Last Bandit


    Really depends on which open source license was originally used - there are loads of different types. Some are very restrictive and prohibit commercial use and others are have no restrictions at all.

    For example Sony has being using FreeBSD in its consoles for years as the licensing doesn't require them to publish their code, whereas with Linux they may need to make their source code available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Had some spare time this morning so went and had a look at my PS1 and N64 Retroarch setups. They had dated in so far as I just had the internal resolution cranked on them, and that was it. This means no shaders, because shaders are designed for native resolution only, and increasing that messes with the shader.

    So switched both cores to Vulkan, left the resolutions turned up a few notches, turn on pgxp for PS1, and configured them for supersampling....thats the real magic. This renders the output back down to native, while retaining the additional detail revealed by the higher resolutions. Then because I'm back at native resolution, I turned on a shader, and tested.....good lord they look class. Way more authentic than just resolutions cranked, but so much improved over native output too....best of both worlds situation.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I just play N64 and PS1 at native with a good shader. It looks phenomenal. The 'pixel art' look that lots of indie games use just looks awful now in comparison.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Preaching to the choir but here's another good example I saw on twitter:




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    I know it's subjective, but how people prefer raw pixel output on lcd's over actual crts, or crt shaders is beyond me. I find it so damn harsh to look at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    If that bottom pic is a shader and not a crt, it has to be crt-royale is it? A stunning shader, but one that unfortunately is built for 1440p+ displays, and gets a bit mushed at 1080p.

    All said though, that's a good comparison. Look at the raw dithered shadows in the top pic, and the smoothness then in the shader applied pic.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I'm amazed at how bad the scanline and crt effects are in commercial games. I mean there must be open source shaders they can use or just pay a pittance for a good home brew one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Those arm devices just get choked trying to run a multipass shaders. Crt-royale has something like 10+ passes on every frame, it takes a decent bit of power to run.

    But yeah, like everything with emulation, the shittest/cheapest solutions are the ones that are most prevalent.

    EDIT - oh you mean commercial releases, sorry thought you were talking about the likes of the Snes Mini etc. Yeah the commercial game thing is odd, maybe they're using lightweight scan lines to ensure the experience is the same regardless of hardware?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    I always think the shader defaults go a bit too on the blurry side. I usually prefer close to the PVM/BVM look, but with a little less blur.

    The below are 4k screenshots from retroarch(12 passes), so probably don't look that great when posted here. But in person and when moving they look great on a 4k screen. If I stick to defaults its way to blurry and I find my eyes trying to focus on the unfocusable 🙂


    Crop:


    Super crop:




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Yep I mean commercial retro compilation releases. They usually have a disgusting composite filter or else bare minimum scanlines that look awful and just darken the image. Even M2 get it wrong a lot of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    If you want the code feel free to grab it below. Will probably need a bit of tweaking for your display, but should look decent on 4k as is.

    https://www.codepile.net/pile/NydoPjVb



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭Inviere


    @Steve X2 damn, that needs to be NSFW man....



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,625 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Steady on everyone, keep the cacks on and your wits about ye!



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