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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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    #15542
    bloopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭bloopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013661#Comment_118013661

    If you compare Ireland to other countries in Europe, we all have the same spike of cases for each of the waves.

    However, in between waves our case rate per 100000 drops down to extremely low levels. Other countries see a drop between waves but the incidence rate per 100000 is a good bit higher than ours.

    Is it possible that our lockdowns have been too effective? As in, Europe had a higher, but manageable case rate between spikes allowing for a larger proportion of their population to be exposed to the virus. Maybe they have a higher rate of natural immunity than we do.



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    #15543
    P.lane78
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭P.lane78


    Leo's spin doctors have played a blinder on this one .... restrictions might not be lifted people, look.. look that way ...don't talk about the budget folks ...it's a master stroke



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    #15544
    Cork2021
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013717#Comment_118013717

    didnt someone say in the restrictions thread that a member of Nphet is married to someone in RTE? possible source??



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    #15545
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,251 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    And just like that the RTE headline changes


    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1448268073241305091?s=20




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    #15546
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @FintanMcluskey wrote:

    "We need more time for cases to come down"

    Why do you think that can't be used as justification again?

    Because nothing is changing.

    Any time that's been said before, cases have either been reducing or there has been something happening to bring them down; i.e. lockdowns or vaccines. So giving more time for cases to come down made sense.

    But right now, nothing is changing. There will be no new restrictions and materially no increase in vaccination rates. Therefore no reason to expect cases to drop, and therefore no logic behind sitting around waiting for them to drop.



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    #15547
    P.lane78
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭P.lane78


    Only a bit of natural immunity (nine months ISH ) at a rate of 1500 a day ...granted the majority of those are vaccinated



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    #15548
    Ah_well.
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Ah_well.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013881#Comment_118013881

    Good to see



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    #15549
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013686#Comment_118013686

    Yep, Limerick in particular seems to be a mess and has been for a week or more. Tallaght's not far behind though.

    We already know that in general vaccination amongst groups on lower incomes and with lower education levels, tends to be lower. And surveys from earlier in the year bore out that this would be similar for Covid vaccines. So it should be no surprise really that we would see hospitals in areas with a large working class populations having outbreaks.



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    #15550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013207#Comment_118013207

    Thank you Fintan, that made me laugh.



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    #15551
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013698#Comment_118013698

    This is my theory as well. Other countries used lockdown as a last resort to avoid hospitals getting overwhelmed and immediately removed as many restrictions as possible the minute it seemed safe enough to do so and allowed their hospitals to be busy.

    Ireland chose to remain in strict lockdown on many occasions when we had tiny case numbers. We wanted to try get to 0 in hospital. Then when a wave comes along we get hit arguably hardest in Europe.



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    #15552
    SupplyandDemandZone
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014207#Comment_118014207

    And stats to back that up?

    People in lower pay backgrounds had been catching the virus more because they hadn't the opportunity to hide away at home behind laptops and worked in areas requiring manual labour. I'm interested to see the figures on lower vaccine take up thanks



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    #15553
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Indo now reporting the same stuff as RTE. Easing of restrictions in doubt etc



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    #15554
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,361 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014025#Comment_118014025

    Because nothing is changing.

    Hospital numbers are increasing

    The very metric used as justification for restrictions up to now has been hospital numbers, and you say nothing is changing.

    I can be accused of a lot of things but I've been consistent throughout this, this was a dangerous precedent for us to accept what we have accepted all Summer in Ireland with our vaccination rates.

    If the reopening goes ahead as planned, which I hope it does, and if you agree with the reopening, its an admittance you've been wrong in justifying restriction's in Ireland for about the past 6 months, or at least since HCW's and the most vulnerable were vaccinated.(I think about April)

    If we can reopen now, its an admittance our policy has been criminally wrong for months.



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    #15555
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,050 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012259#Comment_118012259

    Your post shows how disingenuous you are being .

    I think most of your posting is bang on and am disappointed that you do not for some reason appear to be taking on board that there us a pretty large increase in numbers being hospitalised . Amongst healthcare people are getting worried about this rise as if it continues there is obviously continued pressure on the service when the service is stretched as it is .

    And no, you know if you read my post and others that is not what I want . It is risk boosters for healthcare and those at risk not just those at very high risk , and not next year as that may be too late .

    I can't understand the logic of some arguing against protecting those at most risk but yet they want all restrictions eased .

    It's obvious to me that the way to ensure that we continue reopening fully is to protect the vulnerable through boosters and also boost those that care for them and the sick si that we don't end up in crisis again .



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    #15556
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,251 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014465#Comment_118014465

    Took them long enough to latch onto it.

    MM in the Dail not seeming to worried, ministers at a budget press conference this afternoon saying they expect it to go ahead. The gov position at this moment in time looks to be to go ahead.

    Personally I think it'll take place, would I be surprised if vaccine passes were kept for pubs & clubs, probably not but it would really just be for show at this stage, haven't had mine checked in a while now



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    #15557
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hearing a lot of anecdotes about consultants in hospitals being worried, but doesn’t seem to be echoed by the government nor Paul Reid



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    #15558
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I notice in the Indo version that they say that the CMO will be back from leave on Monday for that meeting, something some people may see as a sign for the worst! Elsewhere in the Indo they suggest that we could have 2000+ cases today.



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    #15559
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,050 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013301#Comment_118013301

    Restrictions being extended will not make a blind bit of difference to hospital services at this stage .

    Vaccinations have worked and boosters for those vulnerable / at risk will hopefully continue that .

    Anyone who is not vaccinated will get infected and some will get sick and be hospitalised , but short of mandating vaccines for these people ,which would be political and social suicide , the only other thing that can be done is to ask that they cocoon. Like that is going to happen !

    The only restriction I see continuing is masks in crowded areas ,health and public transport.



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    #15560
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,251 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014675#Comment_118014675

    God forbid someone takes some annual leave



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    #15561
    P.lane78
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭P.lane78


    Consultants are worried every winter ...our health system is not fit for purpose ...throw in covid , 'normal influenza' and a massive backlog/waiting list ...the pinch point is the system , not the unvaccinated ...the media/Government spin will not reflect this



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    #15562
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014207#Comment_118014207

    Limerick was a mess of a hospital ever before Covid came along. Look at the trolley numbers in Limerick pre Covid. It is the main hospital for the entire mid-west region so I don’t think your analysis that lower vaccination rates is the cause of higher numbers in Limerick. Anyone who was any experience in Limerick hospital isn’t surprised that that hospital seems to get outbreaks regularly.



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    #15563
    Ah_well.
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Ah_well.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013744#Comment_118013744

    You may well be right . I honestly have no idea why our cases are so high .



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    #15564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To be fair to the government, I don't envy them at all at the minute.

    I'm sure they are secretly worried about the case numbers and hospital numbers increasing. I'm sure they are wondering why its happening when we have such high vaccination rates.

    I'm sure they are also a bit skeptical of NPHET advise after what happened with the models last time.

    But I'm sure they are also aware of how bad the optics will be if we delay reopening or even reimpose restrictions with 90% vaccinated. And thats after one of the longest lockdowns in the world.

    I personally think we'll proceed with the 22nd unless numbers seriously jump but I have a feeling we won't make it through winter. And we'll end up debating when it will ever be ok to remove restrictions.



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    #15565
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,361 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014682#Comment_118014682

    Restrictions being extended will not make a blind bit of difference to hospital services at this stage 

    At what point did the restrictions stop making a difference to hospital services?

    I thought the point of our Summer restrictions was to save our hospitals



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    #15566
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,050 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013698#Comment_118013698

    This .

    All those who were being protected from infection and are now catching it as unvaccinated .

    They are spreading it to older age groups who have some vulnerability but thankfully most of these are still protected from serious disease by the vaccine .

    As to the rising milder cases , children , teachers office workers returning and breakthrough mild infections because of increased mixing , but these latter groups are not a problem because they are protected from the worst .

    It is not being caught in hospital as some say .



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    #15567
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Russman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014776#Comment_118014776

    I think the only restriction that would be seen as any way ok-ish over the winter would be the vaccine pass and some meaningful ways of ensuring compliance. Even at that, I doubt it will happen. I don't think there's any chance of a lockdown or other severe measures tbh, there's no need whatsoever.



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    #15568
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    The independent reporting that there are worries about "changes in the behaviour of the virus"

    I'm no epidemiologist, but why the **** would the virus suddenly change in Ireland and not anywhere else on the planet?

    Gaslighting nonsense.



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    #15569
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013640#Comment_118013640

    Yes it does, to the tune of about 70%



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    #15570
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 38,306 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014797#Comment_118014797

    Yep UK arenas and Stadiums full for the last few months along with proper nightlife but in Ireland nope this is a different virus

    How can people not be frustrated at this stage. Constant changing of the goal posts, we done all we could and we buyed into the vaccines because we were told we would get us out of it



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    #15571
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014441#Comment_118014441

    Here's a CSO survey from February about peoples' attitude to whether they'd take the covid vaccine:

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-sic19vahe/socialimpactofcovid-19surveyfebruary2021vaccinationattitudesandholidayexpectations/vaccinationattitudes/

    You'll note the data tables at the end. People who have completed leaving cert (or less) were 3 times more likely to say they'd never get the vaccine, than people who have a degree or higher.

    Similarly people who rate their health as poor (which statistically correlates with lower socioeocnomic status), were 3.5 times more likely to refuse to get it.

    Here's a more generalised summary of findings relating various indicators to child vaccine uptake. http://www.nuigalway.ie/media/researchsub-sites/healtheconomics/files/HEPA-Bulletin-2014-No.-4.pdf

    Globally, it's well established that people on lower incomes tend toward vaccine hesitancy. The reasons are varied, but the link is clear.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014481#Comment_118014481

    That's just all kinds of nonsense. But then your failure to really understand the broader picture had been consistent throughout.



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