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The Irish protocol.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There will be have to be compliance and monitoring built into any easement or flexibility. Tony Connelly outlines it in his tweeting.

    There will be an easing of checks, but they aren't disappearing. The Protocol and border in the Irish Sea remain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    its a bit like voting for brexit then complaining about the effects.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They could simply label everything as "UK".

    Also for the most part they won't be checking the products contain the label I suspect, otherwise whats the point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    If you pick up something and there is no calorific content on it you can report it. But if you pick up something and it does not have this NI lable on it how do you know if it is breaking the rules or not? you don't know if it is coming from GB and only destine for the NI market. If this label was not going to be checked what is the point in having it. why would any producer bother themselves with more red tape if it was not going to be checked and a consumer was not going to complain as they could not assert if it was breaking rules or no.


    It is funny because this label actually makes it more apparent and obvious to a consumer that the north is being treated differently than the rest of GB. At least before there was no labels in consumers faces. The checks before were done at ports where consumers would not know what goods in the supermarket have gone through a border.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Why is Leo losing the plot tonight. Telling countries not to make agreements with Uk

    a pundit up here said that in 20 years in politics they never heard a senior politician say such stuff about a neighbouring country. Remarkable.

    not going down well here given it’s the same bloke who help up 40 year old pictures of the ira handy work.

    he doesn’t seem too happy. I feel for him 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Two things. How would you know there were nuts in it if it didn’t say.

    secondly. Even though I would love Northern Ireland on all products, rumours suggest it is going to be Uk. But hey, that will do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you need Leo to get a win, you know you have lost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    We very clearly don’t need him. He’s on your team 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think the current situation just makes it clear once gain that the British can't be trusted, especially Brexit-Britain.

    Ultimately the British government will lose credibility.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Wee Jeff Donaldson already saying that what has been offered is not enough. There is no pleasing these people, I think GB should face economic pain and what should be on offer after GB climbs down should be far less generous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Wee Jeff is reacting to an offer from Eu to negotiate for more. They said this is not ‘take it or leave it’. Wee Jeff would be letting down OWC if he did not push for the best deal he can get.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    There will be no pleasing the UUP/DUP/TUV who seem to be guided by the shining light that is Jim Alister. I suspect GB will need to feel the stick instead of carrots for the north. By the way, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but the north isn't a country, never was, and never will be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Taking their lead from Frost and Boris again. Will they never learn.

    It's plain to see the British want rid of the Protocol because it will quickly remove anywhere to hide on Brexit. The Unionists are being useful idiots again of they allow themselves to be suckered again.

    What's the bets they won't see this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    The simple fact of Brexit, obvious to everyone, is that one side or the other in Northern Ireland (assuming you restrict your demarcations to Orange v Green) has to lose as a result of the change. Brexit means Borders. You have to put one somewhere: either on the Irish Border or in the Irish Sea. Admittedly some of the loonier and more fanciful Brexiteers like Farage and Baroness Hoey (are we missing an extra "o" there?) try to convince themselves that Ireland will just cheerfully "come out in solidarity" with the UK and leave too.

    Not going to happen.

    So somebody has to lose out, either the unionists or the nationalists because one of the bonds linking northern Ireland to its two mother countries (Ireland and GB) HAS to weaken. That's it.

    Take your pick on which one.

    Then ask yourself: which side had more people that WANTED this BS in the first place?

    Sorry DUP. You bought the pup, you pay the price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Also the pure practicalities of it. If all this falls apart and we do end up with a Customs border on land eventually, that will be quite in your face compared to situation today with NI Protocol, no matter how light touch and open said border remains in practice compared to some other external EU borders that would be easier to control.

    In the ports, the Protocol related "border" between UK and EU Single Market for goods is of course damaging to economic links between GB-NI but it is something mainly experienced by importers & companies (or I suppose in the shops if you are seeking out some GB products specifically that end up replaced by local, or Irish/EU ones).

    Instead of that it would be Joe bloggs living in border region moving about day to day who would get the joys of it in addition to importers, and exporters (from NI to Ireland/EU) too! There's really no way out of Brexit-related disruption of + changes to the status quo for NI, whether protocol survives or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Joe Bloggs' has shown Unionism what equality and democracy means. They don't get to bully any more and if they want their precious Brexit then they are going to have to be the ones to make some sacrifices. They are only abstract 'sacrifices' of a feeling of belonging which Boris and Co. have already shown are entirely unrequited. But that is Unionism's problem to come to terms with really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Well, I think everyone in NI (edit: and Ireland) will be making some sacrifices if the agreement does collapse. In fairness the current situation is more than an "abstract sacrifice" for NI Unionists, but those who voted for Brexit in NI I believe did so as an act of spite to turn over the board and bring some pain to others (Ireland, Nationalists in NI) but it has blown back on them. So hard to feel much sympathy. Also, I sometimes forget it was "expected" that "Leave" would lose (and before campaigning started, that they would be beaten handily enough).

    Really it is down to what UK govt. wants to happen now, and the NI Unionist parties opinions on matters are almost irrelevent to their decision. IMO NI is mainly just a tool in a wider struggle with the EU post Brexit, and Unionist parties serve as a dependable and loyal local interest to parrot the UK govt. line. It seemed to me over last few months (re NI) that UK govt. does not particularly wish to hear from anyone there who doesn't support their position.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Technically, we used to be the biggest exporter of bananas in the EU.

    Again technically, we used to be the biggest manufacturer of bananas. Because of tax loophole.


    Anyway this looks like the old UK Max Fac / maximum facilitation proposal with the data sharing and whatnot which will make harder for the UK to reject or rather more embarrassing if they do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Listening to the news over the past while and today, it only ever seems to be the views of the hard line unionists that are getting an airing. Where are the views of the moderates or the nationalists? Even the shinners seem to be gone on holidays. It appears that there is only one view up there!

    As far as I remember NI voted to stay in the EU.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,665 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well we definitely know who isn't on your team.

    Boris Johnson enjoying the subshine while King Billys fanboys are throwing their toys out of the pram.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Business more than happy. EU is looking after them and their concerns as they said they would, Westminster and Unionism desperately trying to throw them under a bus of crazy dreams.

    Northern Irish firms hail EU proposals to resolve Brexit protocol row | Brexit | The Guardian



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,747 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭Snugbugrug28


    Leo is absolutely right to say those things. Dom Cummings laid it all bare and someone needs to call out the Bojo government on their underhand tactics. I don't think this will impact UK ability to make deals but I reckon the deals they do make will have stronger legal protections for the opposite side and possibly lead to UK paying a higher cost for a deal to make it worth the risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The problem of a relatively thriving north of Ireland and floundering GB (especially Scotland) will remain a massive problem for the Tory/UKIP nutters. How is that resolved? A reestablished border in Ireland with possible crippled economy in the North? I reckon we're heading for a trade war and there's not much that can be done about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,936 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    With Donaldson on RTE News earlier saying it does not go far enough leads me to believe they want the protocol gone. A trade war could indeed happen.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Downcow, you've said the protocol is working well, and you've said these EU proposals remove the bad parts. Clearly this protocol is good for Northern Ireland and is supported on the ground by people in business etc.

    What will your feeling towards London and prominent unionists be if they scupper it for political reasons, using the ECJ to do so? You spoke of protests in Dublin before. Would you consider protests in London instead?

    I see you're keen on insisting that things about it still must change. Are these points that you want negotiated, or are they red lines? In my opinion, the EU is about done with the red lines and this is the big take it with some changes or leave it offer. Are you willing to leave it because of these things you now want?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,647 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Whether they EU proposal involves more red tape or less red tape depends, obviously, on what you're comparing it with.

    GB/NI border under the EU proposal, compared with . . .

    . . . GB/NI border under the Protocol, fully implemented, but without the EU proposal: EU proposal means less red tape.

    . . . GB/NI border as in operation right now, with grace periods: EU proposal means more red tape.

    . . . GB/NI border as in operation before Brexit: EU proposal means more red tape.

    . . . NI/RoI border: EU proposal means more red tape.

    . . . ENG/SCO border: EU proposal means more red tape.



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