Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Latest compo culture award

1246

Comments

  • Posts: 0 Van Stale Palate


    Was a bit hilarious listening to Liveline this afternoon where a woman had got a broken bone when trying to use a child’s swing as it was “too low” for her. She lost but is appealing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭Dhenalau


    In Ireland, you still get 5 times what you get in the UK, if you go to court...

    Instead of playing Lotto tonight, I should sue my neighbour in court because his cat is pooping in my lawn 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Cheeky whoor solicitor was on an evening show on radio giving it the big one blaming the insurance companies for the large premiums.


    Let me tell you a simple fact. The legal profession are the only winners in this. They're literally creaming it.


    I know someone that lost the tip of their finger. Quite genuine case. The settlement out of court was 20k


    The solicitors took that specialise in chasing ambulances took a nice slice of it to the tune of 7k. I seen 1 invoice for 1500 from a plastic surgeon constantly for 15 mins



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,413 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    With any luck she'll be asked for proof of ability to cover the defence costs before appealing. Probably won't though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭Kathnora


    Susan was on Liveline to explain her side of the story. While I totally agree with the judgement in this case it was interesting to hear her side of it. She thought it was okay to sit on the swing with a child to support the child as I think she said he was a bit afraid on his own (something to that effect). I would say that if the child was too nervous to use the swing on his own or too young for such a "bird's nest" swing as it was described then the child should not have been using it. Susan said that an engineer's report stated that the swing should be lifted another foot off the ground for safety and to avoid accidents. But ....what about the fact that if that were done the swing would be too high for some children and they could fall out of it and injure themselves? I blame the engineer for such a report. He must have been judging the height of the swing from an adult's perspective yet the swing was designed for use by young children! Susan was awarded €23,000 by a lower court (I think) but the Council rejected her claim so she took it to a higher court. Susan said she would have been happy to accept that amount. She had the advice of a barrister to go to a higher court and the barrister has also informed her that she has grounds for appeal. Good advice? I don't think so and I'm no barrister! Susan stated that she sat on the swing without thinking too much about it (she was simply helping the child she was minding at the time) and she doesn't agree that adults should use children's play equipment in playgrounds. That's fair enough.

    I think this is a case where everything wasn't thought through. Susan appeared to have good motives for her case. She didn't want an accident to happen to anyone else and she wanted to send a message to the County Council and so on. She was also unable to work for a good few weeks after her accident. The fact that the other lady Sarah (whom she met at the court and apparently has no friendship with) was taking a similar case to the court probably helped to convince her that she was doing the right thing. From listening to Susan today I don't think she was out for as much as she could get (unlike some!) ... I didn't get that impression anyway. I think she was badly advised (and yes I do think some barristers like to line their own pockets!) When you think about it rationally playgrounds are for children, not adults. I'm nearly sure (and stand corrected if I'm wrong) that there were signs in the playground to that effect. Perhaps additional signs warning adults NOT to accompany children on the equipment need to be erected? There are times when people need to think these things through for them selves and perhaps not be swayed by engineers and barristers. It's called common sense.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Suing against someone that way is a lot less a sure thing than claiming off motor insurance


    I got hurt helping someone over three years ago, they wouldn't co-operate with insurance claim and taking them to court was too expensive


    I've chronic pain and I'm out at least 7k in medical expenses and other miscellaneous costs



  • Posts: 0 Van Stale Palate


    The whole point really is it was an accident caused by unsuitable use of equipment, and if she is really hard up for earnings there is sickness benefit in certain circumstances or a more minor court etc to cover loss of earnings. But she was after the “principle” of the matter. The principle is you don’t use small children’s equipment. Reminds me of a very early case in USA of microwave use where someone complained that instructions failed to say that a pet cat shouldn’t be put in to dry after a wash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,280 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Whether an adult should use it or not, or the height of something is in question, there's personal responsibility at play here. As long as the playground is in tact and structurally sound then they should have zero reasons to sue the moment they decide to put a child there or do something themselves. It was their decision. We shouldn't need signs warning who should use what. Ridiculous that people are suing for getting hurt. As if people never got hurt growing up.

    I remember a case where a woman was suing Dunnes because she hurt herself lifting something and wasn't trained in manual handling. It was thrown out if I remember because she could have simply not lifted it as she knew she wasn't trained or asked one of the lads to do it. Apparently they use pallet trucks for moving most stuff and she knew that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    It's human instinct to blame someone else for accidents rather than look inward

    If you look at someone walking on lego with their bare feet the immediate reaction is who the **** left that there..


    Accidents happen. I broke my hand in work. Twice. I never sued anyone, because on the first occasion was my own fault and the second was a genuine accident. Literally no fault of anyone. Of course, If I was a thieving little scroat, I could make l a case and cash them cheques. But I'm not a cnut.

    Post edited by AckwelFoley on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,489 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    She could write to the council and advise them and not go down a legal route if all she wanted was no further injuries to anyone else.

    I'm sorry but she is a gowl, it's a playground for children. Next there'll be grown adults trying to squeeze themselves into the kiddie seat of a shopping trolley and sueing when they get stuck as theres no signs telling them an adult cant sit there.

    We are as bad as the States when we have to put up signs for everything because people are dumbasses.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Joe Duffy and RTE should be ashamed of his failure to challenge this woman's claims and of his highly selective readings from the High Court judgement. I feel sorry for Susan because she did suffer a painful injury but she made a terrible mistake when she tried to get compo.

    She claims she only wanted to improve safety. Why didn't Joe ask her if she had simply asked the Council to lift the swing? She mentions a letter to the Council to which she got no reply. Was that a solicitor's letter i.e. a precursor to a compo claim? Did she talk to her local Councillor? Joe clarifies nothing. But the fact remains that she went to a solicitor and put in a compo claim. After that, if the Council lifted the swing, they would be admitting liability.

    But Joe never challenges her on any point. He seems astonished that the Council didn't simply pay out the Euro 20K after the PIAB award. She goes along with Joe's suggestion the Court didn't know about the PIAB award, as if this would be an injustice. The PIAB award is in no way relevant to the Court. It is a preliminary process for PI claims but it does not influence any later court decision. That is the essential nature of the PIAB. Plaintiffs routinely go to court after the PIAB reject their claim but this in no way disadvantages them in court. Likewise with defendants, including State bodies. Joe deliberately gives the false impression that the High Court overlooked an important point in Susan's favour.

    Joe read out in a tone of amazement the judgement's criticism of her decision not to go to the District Court, the normal venue for minor injuries (and yes, Joe, by High Court standards, a broken ankle which heals fully in a few months is a minor injury and does not rank with e.g. the quadriplegic cases that are tragically all to common in our High Court). She says the barrister decided she should to go to the High Court but Joe doesn't clarify that she must have agreed to that. Did the barrister explain about the higher costs or was she told not to worry because no one could come after her even if she lost? She is shocked to discover what impecunious means. But Joe doesn't ask if she will be able to pay the Council's legal costs - that is what the Judge is talking about. Her appeal, if she proceeds, could cost a quarter million Euro altogether.

    Then Joe produces a rabbit out to his hat - a report by a group called Play Services Ireland. He makes a big show of the report's five levels of action and the fact that raising the swings is at the second highest level. He doesn't mention that Play Services Ireland is a profit-making firm which offers its services to those involved in legal proceedings. This report seems nothing more than a repetition of assesment by the solicitor's engineer which the court rejected because the swing was in accordance with the existing official standards. But Joe makes it sound as if the Council is ignoring official safety standards, as though this private firm was the Environmental Protection Agency for playgrounds.

    And, of course, if the Council raised the swing, there would be more claims because small children would be much more likely to fall and hurt themselves. "Play Services Ireland" don't make this point but no doubt they would readily provide an engineer to any solicitor in a future fall from a raised swing.

    I don't doubt that Susan was seriously hurt i.e. broke her ankle, but that was not the Council's fault. Although it looks very suspicious that two women who know each other made claims that are practically identical but I think these were genuine injuries. They are both local child minders so it is not strange that they both went to this playground. The problem is they sought to capitalise on their injuries by blaming the Council and they put themselves into the hands of lawyers who had no interest in remedying the risks to children and every interest in maximising the costs.

    Joe Duffy comes very badly out of this. He is shameless in collecting a half-million a year from our public service broadcaster by giving a platform to anyone with a complaint. Come to think of it, in this respect he is similar to our well-paid legal eagles. Sometimes he exposes a genuine issue but he does a great public disservice by never challenging the whiners. His ratings, which are supposed to justify his massive salary, are more important than the truth.

    Or are we just fools to pay any attention to him? Sadly, he does have enormous public influence and he must be confronted when he seeks to undermine the integrity of the High Court which is trying to restore the proper limits on liability for personal injuries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,280 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    If she didn't get a reply it was likely a solicitor's letter. I've emailed 2-3 local councillors in my area to get street lights turned on in my part of a new estate and it worked. They're also actively engaged in our estate's Facebook group and they reply to comments, share meeting agendas and so on and we're just one estate in a very large area so if we can get a reply I'm sure others can, they just need to actually try.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭Kathnora


    Well said Caquas. Joe Duffy did himself no favours by not challenging Susan. There were so many questions he could have asked her but instead chose to back her by quoting and re-quoting excerpts from the judge's report. He definitely picks who to challenge on Liveline. It actually makes him appear stupid because any rational thinking person listening to Susan would ask her the obvious questions you posed in your post Caquas. He didn't need to be unkind, just ask her why she didn't see the obvious and why she was so influenced by the so called "experts" or help her to see why such an action failed because she definitely had some blind spots herself! Joe failed to be impartial and play devil's advocate. That's his job!! There are times when he is good at putting both sides of an argument forward and he tries to be fair but not this time.

    Anyway, Susan shot herself in the foot by trying to justify her claim and though I don't think her story should have been given oxygen yesterday if it makes some people think twice about making a claim perhaps it may be worth it.

    Finally, I hope some of Joe's backroom team read boards.ie and pass on these messages 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    It boils my blood to see these kinds of cliams being made in the first place, and then to see some people defend them afterwards. It's like that woman in Swords who got paid out €3.5M because she decided to run across a busy dual carriageway instead of using the nearby footbridge. Her stupidity caused the incident, yet the driver that hit her was found partially to blame and so her insurance had to cough up the dough and lead to you and I paying more for our renewals the year after.

    People on here defended her to some extent saying *I don't agree with it, but...she did have horrific injuries, so...". The injuries shouldn't come into it. She should have gotten no payout because she started the whole ball rolling. Whether one decision of yours causes a paper cut or losing a finger, it should make no difference. Unless it can be proven that someone held your finger there against your will, or equipment failed, then you should be on your own

    I witnessed an horrific suicide recently and have not been the better of it since. If I were like these scumbag leaches I would be going after the family of that person for the trauma their loved one caused me, but all I feel is despair for them. I'm pretty sure, though, that there are people who would go after them, and there would be others who would support them. The whole system is not right.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes people have sued successfully because they were too dumb to know how to drink hot coffee without spilling it on themselves.

    And remember the guy a few years ago who climbed a high gate and injured himself. Sued because there wasn’t a warning sign to say don’t climb this 10 foot spiked gate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Sunday Times reports that the playground concerned has been closed for the past two years due to the legal claims, according to the Council which, it turns out, does not “own, operate or manage” the community playground.

    A local Councillor thanks Mr. Justice Twomey for his “common sense” and says the playground will reopen in the coming weeks. A reformed Community group has got €2.5K from the Department of Children.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tipperary-playground-court-case-closed-volunteers-t0fwlt2zq



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,103 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I heard that on the radio and just to your point about the 23k award, I understood it was from PIAB or whatever it is called now. Which I understand would be more of a kind of mediation body than a court.

    While of course a frivolous case should always be challenged, (and in this case the judge agreed with the position that there was no negligence), there is also a point that Councils and their employees don't appear to face any repercussions or accountability for wastage or overspend.

    So we would not want to have a situation where a Council employee can abuse the effectively unlimited resource pot to bully citizens out of making claims where it is a justified claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭Caquas


    An important point. Lawyers love to say that personal injury cases provide accountability and help improve standards of care. In fact, the legal system provides no accountability and there little evidence to support the claim of improved care, although there has been an explosion of new standards and procedures (and all those silly "hold the handrail" notices that litter every public facility).

    Week in, week out, we read about terrible cases of medical negligence where the unfortunate victims are awarded millions which they can't enjoy because of their devastating injuries. But we never hear about any consequences for the medical staff involved. There is often no incentive for State bodies to settle justified claims but the State Claims Agency has brought some rationality to this decision-making and, in the current case, Tipperary Council was entirely vindicated in proceeding to a full hearing.

    A claim to the PIAB is a necessary preliminary to court proceedings in personal injury cases and the PIAB makes an award based on its expert assessment of the injury. It has no power to define the legal issue of liability which is the key question here. In any event, its award is in no sway binding on the courts.

    The Council was right not to pay out because it was not liable i.e. it was not negligent in respect of this swing. I know, many Irish people can't get their heads around the idea the someone could be injured without some few bob being handed over. The claimant in this case now claims she only wanted the swings made safe but she also seems to think she was entitled to Euro 23K. for her troubles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,103 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Actually we don't know whether your last sentence is correct or not. It was the PIAB which calculated that she was entitled to 23k. She said she would have accepted this but the council did not accept it. The PIAB came up with that figure. It was not mentioned how much she asked for. I don't know whether a claimant actually has to ask for a figure when they go to PIAB or whether they just provide information and the PIAB determines the amount unilaterally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,473 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    What does the new legislation mean for legitimate claims?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭seagull


    If you're referring to the McDonalds case, that was actually remarkably good press management by McD. The woman suffered serious injuries, and McD had already been told to serve their coffee at a lower temperature. That is part of the reason for the large payout in that case. They knew they were serving coffee at a temperature that made it unsafe, and continued to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭seagull


    PIAB just assign a value to the injury. They don't assign any liability. It's a case of this injury is worth this much. It's up to the courts to determine who is liable, and whether a payment should be made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,280 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I'm not familiar with the case, but has there been any compo claims in the last year since we've had to put our own lids on coffee due to Covid? (Starbucks and Insomnia were leaving lids off anyway).

    I'm always reminded about the boy on the Aer Lingus flight who took the lid off, didn't put it back on properly and spilled on himself. He got the correct first aid immediately from staff. Settled outside of court, of course, but the family got a load of cash for some teenagers simple mistake that they don't deserve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    The stupid bitch was driving a car and put the cup between her legs to hold it. How stupid can people get (and be rewarded for it?). Should McDonald's also go out to the car with you and hold the cup for you in case you spill it while drinking from it?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Susan is trying to save face after she got kicked out of court. It came to attention and I expected she wouldn't give a c**p if she had 100k or so sitting in the bank.

    I heard her story as well, its a bunch of lies to put on the "poor me" act. She is an adult, the swing is made for a child. Her weight alone meant she shouldn't be on it.

    Susan and her kind won't be happy till every playground in the country is closed because of money grabber like her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,730 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    What you could do is sue the lotto when your numbers don’t come up and you don’t win... the disappointment of building up your hopes of being a millionaire through advertising then you not winning has negatively impacted your mintal health...




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Some people sneer at lawyers, trying to make them look ridiculous. But lawyers are way ahead of their critics and laughing all the way from court. You just need to frame your argument in the correct legal manner and find suitable clients.




Advertisement