Graduate Engineer or Junior Engineer

aido79 · 09-10-2021 12:44pm #1

I am a final year level 8 electrical/electronic engineering student graduating next year.

Prior to starting the degree I worked as an electrician for 15 years so have a decent amount of industry experience.

I am studying fulltime and not working but am starting to get in contact with companies to get a feel for what jobs may be available next year.

I'm wondering should I be looking at graduate jobs and graduate programs or would I be more suited to a junior engineering position because of my experience as an electrician?

Paul_Mc1988 · 09-10-2021 12:56pm

My opinion is solely based on if you want to become a building services/site/project engineer engineer. If you had studied electrical services engineering while being an electrician I'd say junior. But with electronic engineering I'd go graduate. Services is more heavy on the design aspect of sites .

09-10-2021 1:01pm

Decent amount? 15 years as a sparks, I would regard you as vastly experienced.

You'll have no trouble getting work, I would carefully look around to see what's out there, don't undersell yourself going in on poor salary grad or junior positions.

09-10-2021 1:06pm

Depends on what you want.... Graduate engineer usually means you'll go onto a company graduate program (usually 2 years) which is meant to be a structured course in building you to a competent engineer.. hopefully with the option to get Chartered also (if that's what you want)

I say "meant" and "should" because some companies obviously will take the piss and use you as cheap labour... depending on your sector also, it may be more than 2 years (Vilicom's RF Grad program is circa 5 years, but they progress you to Senior RF design engineer afaik)

Money will also be a factor, you'll be on grad wages....

Junior engineer means there'll be a lot less hand holding and a bigger expectation to hit the ground running, which may be more suited to you with your already professional background...

However, don't always see it as a "shortcut"... in some company cultures, the grad's are seen as the next leaders and get preference on all the internal training, mentoring, coaching etc... which could see you starting ahead as a junior engineer, but falling behind the grads in 2 or 3 years time...

Research the companies thoroughly and ask questions about the above during interview... speak to current and ex-employees if you can also..

Ireland is a small place, so unless it's a multinational, there is still a lot of "well Bob's been waiting for that job to open for 5 years, so he'll get it" in Irish companies, where being on a grad program may bypass this, but being a Junior Engineer wouldn't

aido79 · 09-10-2021 3:48pm

Thanks for the replies. I am hoping to get into Automation/controls as that's what I'm most interested in.

Building services and construction would be 2 areas I would like to avoid getting into unless it was the commission side of things rather than design.

I would not like to be thrown in at the deep end which some companies may do if I was to start as a junior engineer but even if was to start a graduate companies might try to do this as well due to my experience and see it as cheap labour as already mentioned.

I suppose the best way to approach it would be to apply for jobs, research and ask companies which role would suit me and them best.

10-10-2021 12:00pm

unfortunately, grad or junior engineer, you need to serve your time again at that level, there's no way around it...

Now, what serving your time is, will vary from company to company...

If I were you (and not knowing your personal circumstances).... I'd apply for everything and anything in the area of interest... you will gain interview skills along the way, and if you have a few interviews, it'll ease any sub conscious nerves of "oh **** I only have this job to work towards"... you can compare companies and cultures (bear in mind, you're getting the show room version of the company at an interview, "we work on X projects with huge input from Supercorp Inc" , realistically, you'll probably be doing spread sheets or visio diagrams for some engineer who can't be arsed doing them)

All I can advise is ask very detailed questions of what's expected of you, don't leave any ambiguity....

grad program : what is the structure/aim of the program (just to settle you in, future leader etc..) is it recognised/supported by professional bodies? if it's a rotational program, how long is each placement... what is expected of you to pass the program, what is the support after the program..

Junior Eng: what will I be expected to do straight away, what waypoints are in place to see that I am fitting in and progressing, what type of support will I have, is there a set development plan for you to progress from junior, or is it a case of applying for roles as and when they come up... what is the churn in the company like

Then the usual deals breakers: hours of work, pay, pension, holidays, bonus scheme, shares etc...

Wildly Boaring · 10-10-2021 12:06pm

Personally i'd concentrate less on the title and more on the company.

Only my opinion but some of the very large companies can be slow to give responsibility to grad/junior.

Conversely a tiny outfit won't be any use at all and almost expect you to be labouring.

Mid sized, indigenous Irish companies working here, who have a professional reputation would be my approach.

Titles in engineering can be a bit hit and miss.

And yeah don't get duped into a 4 year grad program with no pay rise!!

Outkast_IRE · 10-10-2021 12:09pm

Qualified Plumber here who went back and did a Building Services Engineering Degree and would of had the exact same questions you had before.

I applied for a few of the graduate programmes with top tier consultancies but kept my eyes open for junior roles. Months before i finished college i had interviews and offers lined up from a few different options.

The one i took in the end was with a graduate program but with assurances that i would advance very quickly if i found my feet fast. in about 5 years i went from Graduate - Design Engineer - Project Engineer to Senior Engineer which is pretty fast progression in the company. With the apprenticeship behind you , you are streets ahead of other graduates.

Automation and controls is an area with huge demand , so put out your feelers early with companies, Apply for graduate positions in companies which are a good fit and well regarded but keep your eyes open for other positions also.

aido79 · 12-10-2021 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000355#Comment_118000355

Thanks for that. As you say I'm going to have to serve my time at whatever level I start at so even as a junior engineer I may not even get to do engineering work at first or they may expect more from me than I am to give them.

I'm leaning towards doing a grad program but one that suits my previous work experience rather than one that is aimed at a young graduate without much experience...if such a program exists.

I definitely think the approach you have suggested in asking detailed questions will give a good insight into whether the company and the role they are offering will be right for me.

aido79 · 12-10-2021 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000378#Comment_118000378

Good to hear from someone who has followed a similar path and who ended up doing a graduate program.

I agree there's no question that someone who has done an apprenticeship would be way ahead of someone fresh out of college.

There definitely seems to be an abundance of work out there at the moment so I'll be applying for anything I see that's suitable and seeing what my options are then. Ideally I'd like to be in a situation like you were with offers before finishing up.

5 years from graduate to Senior engineer is impressive so well done on that btw.

12-10-2021 9:38pm

all the best with it anyway... it's a great position to be in, just wanted to give a heads up on some of the pitfalls I've seen, particularly in my company where there is huge emphasis on the grad scheme, and even being through it is an almost guarantee of an interview anywhere in the company, regardless of experience.

I didn't enter via the grad scheme, and I have to work double time for a lot of things, even though on paper I have more experience than a lot of them..

I'm not bitter, it quite suits my personal situation at the moment, and from the flip side of above, they are expected to progress fast into lead roles, where I have a cushy job at the moment while I study. But when I do look to progress, I'll be effectively fighting a number of them for the position.

aido79 · 13-10-2021 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011370#Comment_118011370

Thanks. I'm lucky in the way that I could have the option to apply for both junior engineer roles and graduate programs. A fast tracked grad program would probably suit me best I'm thinking as some of the content of a grad program may not benefit me or the company as it may be aimed more at someone fresh out of college and starting their first real job.

It'll be interesting to see where I end up in 5 or 10 years time.

Bsharp · 14-10-2021 10:43pm

Friend followed a similar path from electrician to engineer and now has a very good job with Pfizer, he does some sort of process control with them. He didn't do a grad programme but worked for a few different pharma multinationals.

Eirgrid or Esb could be interesting options with your experience and the amount of work in the industry. Eirgrid graduate programme involves rotation and it's currently open for application.

aido79 · 15-10-2021 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021543#Comment_118021543

Thanks for that. Great to hear it worked out well for your friend. Process control is something that interests me as well as quite a lot of my experience has been in process plants although not pharmaceuticals.

Applying for both the ESB and Eirgrid graduate program is on my to do list at the minute. I think I have until the end of the month to apply for ESB but I haven't seen a date for the Eirgrid programme but it's probably better to apply sooner rather tha later.

Paul_Mc1988 · 15-10-2021 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025740#Comment_118025740

I'd stay away from those two being honest. They use pay grades that are below current market and the culture of the companies is horrific. I know stories from them that would make you change your mind but I don't won't to post on a public forum.

aido79 · 15-10-2021 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025925#Comment_118025925

That's good to hear...and I'll heed your advice. It's good to hear the good and the bad.

To be honest I have no real idea of what sort of pay grades I should be expecting as I worked abroad for over a decade before I started studying. Any idea what I should be expecting?

Paul_Mc1988 · 16-10-2021 8:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026390#Comment_118026390

Starting wage for graduates in engineering fields is currently about 33k-37k.

Intel are currently taking on 100s of graduate engineers and are paying 37k+ 4× quarterly bonus + 1 × yearly bonus + RSUs. Package would be about 44k all in.

TLI group are offering about 35k for graduates

Jones engineering I've heard 33-36k

ESB would be closer to 30k

Its an employees market at the moment and wages have never been higher starting off so you should be on decent money starting off.

Bsharp · 16-10-2021 10:24am

Fair play on the further insight, I worked for one of them and really enjoyed it but came in with experience.

aido79 · 20-10-2021 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027238#Comment_118027238

Thanks for that. These are in line with what I have seen elsewhere. I would be hoping to be able to negotiate towards the top of any graduate salary due to my experience.

I'm not sure if I should be surprised that the ESB salary for graduates is lower than others...but I am.

I've been in touch with a few companies and had a couple of informal interviews already for next year so I'm hoping I'll have a few offers by the time I ready to start work next June.

Graduate Engineer or Junior Engineer

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