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Are healthcare workers becoming more rude and obnoxious?

  • 16-10-2021 8:55am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I am in good health but unfortunately a relative is not (dementia and other conditions) so there are regular hospital, clinic and GP appointments with me as carer. I'd estimate that at least 50% of my interactions with healthcare workers are unsatisfactory in some way usually due to rudeness, assuming that problems are my/my relatives fault when they clearly aren't, incompetence, a patronising attitude etc. Or the one that really boils my piss - healthcare workers who give a distinct impression that this is the first time they have EVER encountered a person with dementia.

    Had an experience in one public voluntary hospital recently. I started out with a positive mindset given that we were finally being seen after months of waiting. But the rudeness and computer says no nonsense started at reception and got worse from there. By the time some Asian person (I genuinely couldn't tell whether it was a man or woman) started admonishing my relative for leaving their elbow sticking out the side of the wheelchair, I was ready to sink my fist into somebody's face.

    Maybe my relative isn't the only one with dementia, are these workers confused about where they are working, maybe they think they're in a cattle Mart rather than a hospital? I wonder has Covid made this worse - ver are your papers, stand on this spot, sanitise your hands NOW. Also GPs are now in the habit of making patients wait two weeks for a useless "phone consultation" because Covid and "we're very busy and very important you know"

    If healthcare people don't want to deal with sick, elderly and vulnerable people why don't they fcuk off and find a different job?



«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Have you considered it's you with the attitude.

    I'm not sure if you meant to come across this way but you don't sound one bit pleasant.

    'some Asian person'.

    .yeah ok. Enjoy your Saturday I'm sure it will be poxy as normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    I'd agree with this statement. What the ethnicity or gender of the healthcare worker has to with it is beyond me, yet you still chose to highlight it..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    An inability to tell whethet it was a man or woman suggests there are even more issues



  • Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    Try dealing with Joe Public on a regular basis and you will be astounded with the arrogance there is out there by many who should know better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Fitz II


    I always find that patients experiance of healthcare is a reflection of their attitude towards healthcare.

    Lot of people dont like, not being in control and get aggressive and annoyed as a means to regain some power in the situation.

    There is a saying in medicine, surgery etc that goes "Nice patients, get good outcomes" and it really is true. When all the nurses/doctors etc are relaxed and unstressed they perform better. They will go out of their way to go that extra mile for you. When there is aggressive patients or family around, workers retreat into a more defensive posture.

    You can manipulate this to your advantage by being really really nice, watching what and how you say things and appreciating that healthcare workers are doing a nasty, stressful and unpredictable job often in less than ideal conditions. They need you to be respectful and patient....

    Remember you need them a hell of a lot more than they need you, so give up the macho bullsh1t. Even better go spend a day wiping arses in a nursing home and see how your opinion shifts.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Your post makes it look like you're the issue here with some horrible statements in it, have you dealt with these people/ this place before?



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    As a health care worker from Hospital to nursing homes, I think the problem might lie with you. Or you have been incredible unlucky in your dealings with those working in healthcare.

    Your attitude in your post is anything to go by, you might need to relax. Maybe your really struggling dealing with your situation and look into getting help with your family member. Maybe full time career or nursing home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    I think OP has a point.

    Health service in this country is pretty poor on the condescension front. The Pandemic or more correctly, handling of it hasn't inspired confidence.

    Not sure why posters are taking issue with the post. It's a discussion forum, in AH at that, and OP has had a rant about something. No harm discussing it rather than attacking what they perceive as a personality issue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    I have to agree with the other posters. Ive had nothing but positive interactions with health care staff. The doctors (mostly) come across as aloof assholes and the processes/procedures seem like they've been written before computers were invented.

    But the nurses and front line staff ive met have been awesome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Did you read the post?

    . By the time some Asian person (I genuinely couldn't tell whether it was a man or woman)

     are these workers confused about where they are working, maybe they think they're in a cattle Mart rather than a hospital?

    ver are your papers, stand on this spot, sanitise your hands NOW.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭mistress_gi


    I find dealing with most of healthcare staff in ireland incredibly frustrating.

    I'd be more informed than the average patient and i always have to advogate for myself, otherwise I'd be dead, a couple of times by now 😂

    I am not exagerating when i say I'd be dead!

    The lack of english often frustrate the crap out of me, even though i am foreign myself. And the fact GPs, for example often are dismissive of what i am telling them...

    Consultants on the other hand, I've never had a problem with and find them very knowlegeable and open to being partners in my healthcare management rather than dictators.

    I totally get what the OP is saying about his situation, the more you have to deal with dismissive professionals the worst it gets but there is really no way to avoid them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Thanks for proving my point. Your communication skills are lacking, I presume you meant carer rather than career. As for the comment about placing my relative in a nursing home - yes I have gotten those "helpful" suggestions from healthcare people. Mostly because they didn't want to deal with challenges or do their job. Make the person someone else's "problem".

    People are placed in nursing homes and effectively written off and denied healthcare "ah sure they're old and they have dementia" is on the tip of everyone's tongue. This is a known issue in dysfunctional health systems and staff attitudes reflect this. Minor interventions that could improve quality of life are not done because nobody (apart from relatives if there are any) gives a crap.

    Another major and potentially life threatening problem is healthcare workers (including physicians and nurses) who don't know the difference between delirium and dementia and arrogantly don't believe family members when they explain that no, their elderly relative isn't always confused.

    I knew the Asian reference would trigger people, one reason I brought that up is because I have found that attitudes seem worse from foreign nationals, from receptionists to consultants. Communication is often a problem and maybe there is a cultural factor.

    Somehow it is all wrong to point out things like this yet when a healthcare worker who is being paid to provide a service makes certain assumptions based on a person's age and mental status. - that's grand.

    I certainly will not relax. Two of my relatives are already dead because of fcukups in HSE hospitals. I'm trying to avoid this happening again.



    A



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    As the old saying goes, if you go out and bump into an asshole, you’ve been unlucky to bump into an asshole. If you go out and everyone you bump into is an asshole, you are most likely the asshole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    Healthcare workers are some of the rudest people who think they are God like. Granted they do a hard job, but they chose to do that job. And they are well paid for it even though they'll have you believe they're not. There is some great nurses and doctors and so on. But the bad ones outweigh the good ones. With covid they think they can get away with their bad behaviour and lack of compassion and professionalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    Not only that but manages to insult their gender as well.

    I honestly wouldn't blame anyone working in A&E for snapping back now and again. They're under staffed, under resourced and everyone that comes in blames them for it. It's a tough job and the majority of the hurlers on the ditch wouldn't last 10 mins at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    Real scenario.

    Elderly patient attends renal clinic. She, the patient is receiving Dialysis for renal failure. No output of urine due to Kidney Failure.

    The nurse is a renal nurse. And she asks the patient for a urine sample. The patient says she hasn't one. Nurse replies you're coming here long enough to know you should bring a urine sample. Totally rude and no need.

    Patient replies, well you're a nurse long enough and a renal one at that, so you should know a dialysis patient passes no urine and can't provide a sample.

    No need not to be nice to an elderly renal patient. Their lives is hard enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    Wow I spelt a word wrong. So that means my communication in work must be terrible? You must be tired jumping to all these conclusions.

    The relax comment was meant as a concern. As your clearly stressed and snapping at everyone. Your reaction to my comment, proves my point.

    I'm so glad you know more about medicine then all the doctors and health care staff you deal with. I'm sure there delighted when you come in, telling them how they are doing there job wrong

    You clearly started this thread for attention and clearly need help in your situation. It can be hard for families dealing with this type of thing and the fact other people have pointed this out, suggest it's clearly visible to others too. You might want to listen to them.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Mixed feelings.Generally I find their manner is lovely.Where I have issues is when, like someone else said, they meet someone like me who is half informed aswell, or who at least asks questions, they get a bit shocked.Some don't actually know how to react.Some become quite brusque.Some look at me like I have ten heads because would I not just accept their opinion?I'm not rude, a firm believer in you get back what you put out.But I won't stay silent if I have a question either.And some don't handle that very well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...or are they simply just over worked and generally mistreated......



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,863 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Empathy.

    If I sense the person caring for my loved one is overworked, tired and cranky I will do everything I can to make them feel at ease and relaxed when speaking to us. This involves lots of "sorry I know your up to your eyes but can I just ask..."

    This approach tends to get good results.

    The bull in a China shop approach of "why aren't you doing this / that / the other gets peoples backs up, defensive, and ready to snap should a raised voice come their way.

    After 2 posts I think it's obvious which approach the OP takes



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    You shouldn't have to kiss arse to ask a question.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I agree with the OP on his point about GPs.

    Having recently had a flare up of a recurring illness that I knew I needed immediate treatment for, I contacted my GP office on Monday morning @ 9am I was told the best they could offer was a phone consultation the following Friday, and the doctor would then decide if I needed a face-to-face appointment. Having previous experience of this new system, I knew a face-to-face would be at least a week after the phone consultation.

    Pre-covid if you rang on a Monday morning you would reasonably expect to get an appointment to see a doctor - maybe not your first choice, but one of the doctors within the practice - on Tuesday or Wednesday. I was also expected to disclose the nature of my illness to the receptionist before she would book the call, which I object to on the grounds that a receptionist is not qualified to triage patients.

    It makes you feel very vulnerable and its quite scary when you know you are ill but cannot access your doctor within a reasonable time frame. I am looking to change surgery (after 38 years) if I can find one without this new system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,504 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    This. We're sick of your shît. The self entitlement of some of the people who come into hospital is astonishing. It's a horrible environment to work in, especially now. If we think we're being short with you it's because the hours suck, the work is hard, we're unbelievabley understaffed and underpaid. Just remember the health service in Ireland is a third world service. It's not our fault. We're sorry your few hours in hospital were crap, it would be just as crap for us if we were in your shoes. At the end of the day remember it's a hospital and not a hotel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "I'm so glad you know more about medicine then all the doctors and health care staff you deal with. I'm sure there delighted when you come in, telling them how they are doing there job wrong"

    Don't be so dismissive.

    The best doctor I ever met was one who told me "never discount the insight of a patient's relatives. They may not be medically trained, but they know their loved ones."

    Doctors get a brief snapshot of a person while attending an appointment. Family members and carers are with them sometimes 24/7.

    I have had some really good experiences with HCPs and also some really bad ones. So I won't tar all with the same brush. But sometimes Doctors do get things wrong.

    Like the OP, I have had a parent with dementia where I was fobbed off, or told there was nothing wrong or that things were not severe, or that intervention was not needed just because my mother was having a "good day" at her appointment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Two posts in and the OP has proven what I thought about their attitude.

    Thanks OP as I said originally enjoy your Saturday. I'm sure there are some more 'foreigners' out there to do your every whim for next to no money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭jackboy


    In fairness get a new job would involve going back to college for years and then starting a new career at the bottom. Getting a new job can be an enormous task and actually not possible for economic reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I just flashed through the tread...

    Irish people have really changed in... we are selfish and that just happened... its a pity really... we use words like empathy but its all talk...

    We have lost our sense of nature in my view...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭cavan_man2021


    Op feel your pain with the state of the hse in this country. There is a lot of arrogant little pricks working everywhere in the hse.

    This site is full of arrogant little tossers who knit pick and stir the ****. They want to royal you up and laugh at you.

    I have read loads of comments and they are only trouble makers on this site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭anndub


    Of course he's stressed, being a carer for someone with a chronic condition is stressful. Surely some empathy would be more appropriate than offering "solutions".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    No. The whole point of me ranting on this site is because I don't do that in real life. As a former public servant myself who worked in shambolic conditions in a controversial field, I'm well used to dealing with frustrated members of the public and can see it from both sides. I also have a good idea what is and isn't acceptable from both sides. There is far more onus on the staff member to be empathetic to the customer than the other way around.

    I have made formal complaints to the HSE on various issues so it's not just that I'm posting about it here and doing nothing

    Some of the healthcare staff that I am referring to in the OP were horrid from the minute I saw them. Barely a greeting (unless a grunt counts) followed by computer says no. Then I got admonished for something that was their fcukup. Then no apology. And as I said in the OP, my relative got admonished for leaving their elbow sticking out the side of the wheelchair (that they don't normally use but then there we are again with the assumptions - this patient MUST know that they should keep their elbow inside the chair) Other stuff too - and that was all just in one of our many appointments.

    Another key point is that I am talking about elective/scheduled appointments here. not A&E at 3am on a Saturday night. Wait months for an appointment on a weekday then when you attend, staff are rotten. As I looked around me in one outpatient waiting area recently I saw mostly elderly people, some with carers all sitting quietly like me. Saw one elderly man who was there on his own (may have had hearing impairment) being spoken to like a bold toddler in front of everyone.

    Public, private, GPs, nursing homes - problems everywhere.

    The health service is somewhat tolerable if you are young and in the full of your health. The irony.

    The posters defending this rubbish and focusing in on my transgression about the Asian in the OP rather than the substantive point may change their tune when they themselves become sick and old and can't hear what the foreign national worker with poor diction and an obnoxious attitude is saying to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    It seems to be very common among Irish professionals, including those in medical fields, to think that the practice of their profession in Ireland is the best in the world and that there isn't the slightest possibility you might also have a science based tertiary education like them so you need to be talked down to as if you left school at 16.

    I'll never forget having an Irish dentist telling me Australian dentistry wasn't up to Irish standards and being amused later when two different ones seemed surprised at the quality of an existing crown in one instance and the quality of an RCT as revealed on an x-ray they were studying, in the other, both having been done decades earlier in Oz.

    Just for the record; neither Irish health care in general or dentistry are close to being as good as they are in Australia.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And the responses have shown the attitude of health care workers is not exactly good, either.

    Also the OP is not personally responsible for what people are paid - that's a below the belt dig.

    Someone mentioned empathy.

    It should go both ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Empathy... nearly every person i know that uses this word have no what i call "nature" in them... full of sith...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    Healthcare is really a luxury isn't it, lets be honest.

    We're the only animal on this planet, that can fix ourselves if we get sick.

    But then people act all arrogant and complacent about this, like the universe owes them perfect flawless healthcare or something.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    I don't know how it not empathy trying to help someone out when they need it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I wouldn't say healthcare workers are any more obnoxious or becoming moreso than anyone else. That said they are not any more saintly either. Healthcare for some may be a vocation, but for most it's a job, and in any job you'll have the good, bad and indifferent.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In time we will look back on covid as the best thing to have happened to the health system in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My post was heavily redacted, I had to edit myself so as not to ruffle any feathers but I suppose the best analogy would be to liken it to a forest fire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You are assuming Ireland is capable of change and fixing obvious problems when they are beyond ignoring. This is not true, in my experience. As a perfect example: After the first lockdown last year, there was no increase in the number of critical care beds.

    The requirement for a national childrens hospital was identified and expressed in the mid 1990's.

    Limerick Regional has had a significant bed shortage and people stacked on trolleys for about 20 years and never a whisper about the obvious need for a new, modern, far larger hospital offering better services so patients from Galway, Cork and Limerick regions don't have to go to hospitals in Dublin for various critical treatments; aleviating the need for them and their relatives travelling large distances from where they live.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My thought process was a little more blunt, I just assumed that nature would do a bit of pruning all by herself. No need for human interference at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    My experience....

    Front line staff have been other worldly brilliant....

    consultants on the other hand in my experience have been some of the most rude, obnoxious, uncaring arrogant and downright incompetent gangsters...two of them I know literally stealing a living..



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭jay1988


    Sounds like you're the problem tbh and a dick too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What's wrong with how the pandemic was handled?

    Anyway, the stress of the job. But they shouldn't be getting narky with members of the public because of this. However I can see how it happens - just imagine the maniacs they have to deal with.

    I remember at the start of the pandemic, my local pharmacist was a bit snarky towards me. I knew it was because of the pressure she was under so I acted really nice and with empathy, and she's just been super nice to me since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    The OP obviously had a bad experience, it's very common in the health service. I dont think Irish people complain enough about bad public services but they should or nothing will change.

    People attending hospitals are sick, the only reason they're there is for medical help. Healthcare employees, at every level, are there to provide that help whatever form that might take. Anyone who has been in an ED or waiting for months to see a consultant knows how stressful it is without having any additional stress from unprofessional standards.

    We all know there were extra demands on HSE staff since covid but all jobs have some level of stress, and sick or elderly patients deserve professional standards of care and attention. I dont know about others, but it annoys the hell out of me if someone tells me to relax..and telling the OP to put their family member into a nursing home is not very helpful.

    Post edited by mrslancaster on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The "just put them in a nursing home" mentality is common both within and outside of the health service. Sadly, it seems to be a first resort for some families when dealing with aged parents.

    Once in a nursing home, interventions almost stop IME. e.g. earwax is allowed to build up and become impacted because "shur they don't need to use their hearing". Yet it has been acknowledged in civilised countries for many years that wax microsuction and wearing hearing aids can help the elderly a lot in terms of quality of life and even improve dementia symptoms.

    Also important for elderly people living at home. So off to the hospital ENT Dept and encounter unprofessional staff with no patience who only seemingly want to deal with young people who can hear what the staff member is saying. 🙄

    Also to show the mentality, I remember a good few years ago I had an issue with travellers calling to my relative's house and trying to rip them off for house repairs. At the time, the cognitive impairment was mild and my relative was very independent. I was chatting to a nurse (wife of a friend) and mentioned what was happening and her unbelievable suggestion was....how about a nursing home. 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,722 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Only experience I had with the health service was when my wife gave birth last year. The midwives were absolutely lovely, really friendly and happy to help. The doctors were to the point, firm but professional. The ward staff were absolute wagons - nasty and unhelpful. That's all I have to say, thanks for reading



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,408 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    My Dad had dementia many years ago and I found health care professionals to be rude and dismissive. One doctor started to berate him about something and I had to intervene as my Dad was just getting scared and not understanding what the issues were.

    Nurses too were poor. I am talking about A&E here more than the sector in general.



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