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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    We don't know if 10 or 15 is Bauden Barrett's best position but I'd still pick him if we could.

    This whole 'wait and see' business with Carbery is annoying. He's not up to it and he's made of papier mâché. Healy has a chance of making it, at least.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    “Worst case scenario, he isn't good enough in which case he's in the same bracket as Burns, Byrne and Carbery. And they've been given loads of chances.”

    Carbery aside, this is simply not true tho, TRC.

    Ross Byrne, 2 starts, 11 sub appearances for 335 mins

    Jack Carty, 2 starts, 8 sub appearances for 274 mins.

    Billy Burns, 2 starts, 5 sub appearances for 201mins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    These stats highlight the issue beautifully.

    If any of the supporting cast were up to the level required, they'd have burned past the other two and claimed all those minutes for themselves. The fact that we're still no closer to knowing who the best of them is probably means that none of them are good enough.

    When ROG came into the squad, we weren't sitting around wondering if maybe Jeremy Staunton should get another go or was Eric Elwood worth a recall. When Sexton came through, there wasn't much debate about whether he or Ian Humphreys should get the nod, but Niall O'Connor was coming up fast..



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    The consistency arguement doesn't stack up when you're selecting Carbery though. To be frank, Carbery has never shown a particularly consistent run of good form at 10 either(in fact he's been consistently poor since he came back from injury 8 months ago), so if you're not selecting Carty due to inconsistency, you're not selecting Carbery either.

    I think that leaves you with Sexton and Burns, and if it's down to Carty or Carbery at the moment as the third - it should be Carty. I suppose you bring one of the younger players in in that "apprentice" role for the autumn internationals in the hope they can step up soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah I’d probably agree with Sexton and Burns all right. And I agree Carbery isn’t doing enough to get selected. If Harry Byrne is fit and available then he may well get the 3rd slot. Although I do still expect Carbery will be involved. As I said, we’re in real trouble at 10. I absolutely do not think Carbery is the answer. But unless/until someone else steps up to the plate, which nobody has, then we just have to suck that up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Not sure what the solution is there though. Even if you think none of them is good enough somebody has to be selected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Oh yeah I know.

    The solution is pray that either Carbery improves by several orders of magnitude or that one of the young guys burns it up in the next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭OldRio


    On form its Carty. Burns or Carbery running out as number 10 for Ireland wouldn't fill me with much confidence. Of course this is all IMHO. And I would love either of those players to prove me wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,479 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I wonder if Doak would be a good 10? He's played there in the past!

    I think Larmour is getting selected. He's been quite good. Lowe on the other hand hasn't shown me any kind of defensive capability. Ethan McElroy could be a bolter for this autumn.

    Kelleher has improved imo. He could nail down the starting position. Timoney has shown up well and I hope he gets a call. Molony has got to be close! He's been great. I think Prendergast will be capped. He seems to have tons of ability. Deegan most likely won't make this squad! Coombes and Conan would be my frontrunners for the 8 shirt.

    Lot's of tough calls coming!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    The back three conversation is going to be very interesting. I genuinely think Zebo is in with a shout. Played well again last night in the few moments where he got a chance.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭joedamuss


    Healy is the obvious choice to bring in, he's miles ahead of Carberry at Munster and should be our starting outhalf in red.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Doesn't deserve to be in the squad but the IRFU are picking up his salary so he'll be involved.

    Regarding outhalf: Carbs is playing terribly at the moment, but we've invested so much time in him at this stage I think he'll be involved. Personally, I'd go with Burns and Carty and let them shoot it out for the second spot. Burns is a decent bridge OH while we wait on one of the young guns to take the reigns. Carty is quality on his day but the inconsistency scares the bejaysus out of coaches with other options.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    He's started the season well and we're not exactly stacked at fullback or wing. I think he'd be a solid addition myself.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    What a load of nonsense this is as well btw. The “JVG doesn’t trust youth” trope that’s still doing the rounds in parts on here doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,960 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Anyone that cites munster or jvg not bringing through youth at this stage can probably be ignored. It's not been a valid criticism for a few years now



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Zebo might miss out on the basis of his age but I think he'll be picked.

    Farrell has tended to name big squads so probably not much controversy incoming.

    We'll probably have to go full strength against Japan to prepare for NZ so overall it won't be a revolutionary series I would think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,479 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think these upcoming matches should be used to experiment. No harm giving Casey and Coombes the bulk of the minutes? Burns also should get a run, with Sexton on the bench? I think Porter will see plenty of action and suppose Healy should be tried at th.

    The results are not do or die! It should be time to test younger players. I don't see a lot of new caps as nobody has really stood out, imo. This is a massive opportunity. The 6nations will probably see a more settled squad, so now is an ideal time to see lads like Hume; Timoney and Blade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭yerrahbah


    The OH situation just got a lot more interesting



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Henshaw touch and go for the November internationals too. One of the few world class players we currently have who was in form. But disastrous tbh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Wikidy


    Rapidly losing interest in the Autumn internationals, with Sexton, Henshaw and Henderson not 100%



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'll be very surprised if Sexton isn't lining out against NZ. The injury update from Leinster is a lot less worrying than that Indo article. Ditto for Henshaw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Sort of glad if Sexton isn’t available, we really need to grow a pair of balls for the first time ever by the next World Cup so hopefully this is the catalyst to change. The difference between a team of losers (aka us) and a team of winners (SA) is they indentify problems and fix them, we on the other hand identify a problem but make no effort to correct the problem and just hope the problem fix’s itself by the RWC, like in the last World Cup when our genius of a coach thought we could play our way into form, what he really means is he had no clue how to fix the issues and had no plan B, quite rightly got his and Ireland’s pants pulled down in the end. And IRFU saw right through the Hyberbole and rightly laid the blame at the coaches door.


    Hopefully now instead of whining about not having another 10 we grow a backbone and try fix the problem (and no, giving a player 2 sporadic starts in their career is NOT backing a 10). Would love him looks and Healy and Carbery and just backs them in the autumn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭TRC10


    You're absolutely right.

    The IRFU should hire Harry Potter so he can magic us another world class out half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Yes, that would mean we have 1 world class 10 on our books. Sexton was left out of the Lions for a reason you know.

    To attempt to fix the problem at 10 we need to back one of our other 10s and give them a full autumn/6N/Summer tour and allow them to grow into the Jersey without the presence of Sexton overshadowing everything. The last time we had that was Paddy Jackson in 2016 during the Tour to SA, he would never have been considered a potential replacement for Sexton until that tour, he didn’t because a potential top international 10 by sitting on the bench every game, if Ben Healy kicks on at Munster or potentially even Harry Byrne and the Irish coaches balls have dropped by the 6N I’d be looking to back one of them, it’s a calculated risk that could have a big upside if it works out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,479 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I suppose we could put Porter at 10!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭ersatz


    We are going to end up playing 2 of these other 10s in a big world cup game without a doubt, that's assuming Sexton is still going well enough to carry some or most of the load. Thats already a long shot so from a coaches perspective 2 of the 3 or 4 others in the conversation WILL BE Irelands out half for some or most of the next World Cup, there is absolutely no doubt about that. The only question is how do you proceed given that assumption, do you accept it and decide on two of them and start playing and coaching them into as good a test ten as they can be, or do you persist with Sexton as the starter and hope for the best? Winning coaches don't do the latter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,479 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    If Sexton is not available I would assume that Carty gets called up?

    I think Burns would be in pole position!

    Carberry is not at the races and neither is RB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Persisting with a 38 year old 10 in the hope he will be fit and not have a plan if he’s not it the most gutless thing you’ll see from a coaching staff since the time a team left a rudderless team unchanged in the hope they’ll play themselves into form…oh wait so that’s also us….if this is our plan we will have the same outcome as the last World Cup if not worst as we have a difficult pool this time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Persisting with Jackson's exile is the problem. An entirely self inflicted wound, and stupider by the day.



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