The creeping prominence of the Irish language

If you could quote somewhere in this thread, or any where on the site really, that I complained people who wanted to were doing something through Irish that'd be great. You do you, just leave those of us not interested in a dying language out of it.

The Irish forms should be smaller on, for example road signage, in order to reflect the de facto usage of the two main languages of the state. It's as simple as that.

Reservations about what exactly?

I was accused of "standing around crying" because people were doing things through Irish so I asked for proof of that. The post probaly could use an extra comma or two.

I don't participate in any aspects of traditional Irish culture, I've been exposed to plenty of them but they never held my interest.

I stopped looking into Irish history in junior cycle, the long series of defeats got a bit repetitive.

Yeah, our culture is unique, just like everyone else's.

See, that’s really insightful as to why you think the way you do. Culture has a creative power -it can open your mind and broaden it. But some people can be numb to culture- that aspect is just dormant. Seems like there is a lot of potential inside you but the view of life & meaning can seem realistically narrow in an unfulfilling matrix-like reality. So if cultural areas of music, sport, poetry, dance, history, art, prose, Irish …don’t hold your interest, (and I’m genuinely intrigued here), what does???

Spanish and French are both very recognisibly Romance, and speaking one makes it incredibly easy to learn the other, despite whatever changes have occurred in them over the last 2000 years.

Today, most English vocabulary is non-Germanic, and the verb system is highly simplified, whether as a result of Scandinavian influence or French - or both.

Speaking only English, the average person will not pick up German or Dutch in a few months just by being there and hearing it around you: but this will happen to the average person moving between French, Spanish, Italian - or between German and Dutch.

It varies with the language; and being a motivated adult is very different to sitting in a schoolroom where there is no guarantee that either the teacher is competent (and many primary teachers are very poor at Irish) or that the pupil is making an effort to learn.

The 5,000 contact hours are supported by Canadian studies into bilingual/immersion education in Canada; also by studies in the Basque country where they discovered that bilingual schools only produced a minority of functionally bilingual kids.

So people here can tell us what we should know after X hours of instruction in Irish - based on nothing more than their individual opinion (which curiously seems to generally be hostile to Irish) - or we can go with serious academic studies into the matter in foreign countries and then try to extrapolate their findings to Irish.

So first we force Irish speakers to learn English, and having done so, we then use that as an excuse to deny them services in Irish?

Sounds like a good definition of facism to me.

Language is a tool, plain and simple, there to allow us to communicate with our peers, when that tool no longer fits the job it's no longer useful. The arguments about history and culture are really only relevant for the content, not the language you use to record it or express it. In fact if you think there is more value in maintaining those cultural elements in a language a tiny percentage of our own country speak, let alone zero outside it, then you're missing the point of your own argument. Similar to the history argument being used, having had or used something in the past doesn't mean you need to today. Also comparing this to languages like French and Spanish is pointless, besides both of those countries not natively speaking English to begin with they are in use in other countries around the world based mostly on colonial history. Irish is nowhere else, and again even here only truly spoken by an absolutely tiny minority.

I respect some people want to use it and for their kids to learn it but it should be completely optional and not treated like a core part of our internal systems. Ditto if you take some pride in it, I do in my model collection, each to their own. But I do resent this being compulsory on official documents, announcements and in schools when the time could be freed up for other more useful topics that the child and parents can choose (before you jump on this very clearly 'choose', if they still want Irish fine but if it was me I'd use the time for learning to code).

"I never said the onus was on you to provide state services"

"I'm assuming you can speak Irish fluently, you could offer your time to teach a class or start club or any number of things through Irish."

Thanks for the opinion.

Now, hows about some evidence to back the opinion up?

Today I learned all classes and club activities are state services.

No, but you glibly told the poster to go off and do whatever it is themselves. Things which receive huge state subsidies when provided through English.

And BTW, many "privately provided" services in English are also paid for by the State, BTW.

Then presumably the poster could also avail of this funding. But the poster would still have to go out and do it, just like everyone else who wants something that isn't available.

Irish speakers are just going to have to accept that when you want to speak the 3rd or 4th most common language in the country, cupla focail aside, you're going to have put the effort in to gather and do things yourselves.

In fairness, there doesn't need to be. Just have one or two available and let them deal with the people who wish to conduct their business in Irish. Yes, it can happen that there will be times when none are available at certain times, at which point either reschedule the appointment, wait, or conduct in English.

Matters pertaining to 'creeping prominence of the Irish language'... can you not read the referenced article?

...and that's a broad view. If we delve deeper, culture is passed on from generation to generation. There's a life-pulse in it which echoes through the ages, it is a means whereby one can connect to your origins, or 'your roots' as the Americans say 🙂. By delving deeper into culture it serves to broaden the mind. Sure, there are other cultures - and it's valuable to explore them - especially in an immersive sense. In doing so it is possible to appreciate the richness of the Irish culture. Irish language, as a means of expression enables one to see life through a different lens. Unfortunately, lack of appreciation due to poor experience with the language does not in itself make the language poor (far from it!) - only that one's view of things may be shaped through circumstance and limited experience to perceive it so.

Your initial question was: "So if cultural areas of music, sport, poetry, dance, history, art, prose, Irish …don’t hold your interest. what does???"

You can be aware of the branches of cultural you list and still not really connect with them - even connect with aspects of other cultures more. This is nothing to do with poor experience - people just have different tastes and apprectiate different things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the dog actively stopped everyone else from using it, did it not? The general population's attitude is to not stop anyone else from using it, bar a few overly zealous individuals. It's just perceived as that way because said zealous individuals get highlighted and their viewpoints disproportionately attributed.

And in the meantime, would you advise us to refuse to pay taxes for services that aren't being provided to us?